3 ms·

I am head of development in my company. I make standards and learn others WHY. They soon all become groopies as they replace usual borring repetitive stuff that

I am head of development in my company. I make standards and learn others WHY. They soon all become groopies as they replace usual borring repetitive stuff that no engineer is worthy doing with something far more interesting and rewarding. Since I work wiht N other vendors and their engineers on which I don't have much jurisdiction, I just do my stuff explaning why all the time and if they are any good, they will adopt it. If they don't, its typical that they suffer ineficiencies and I show them by doing their work that it can be done better and faster. Top managers notice eventually how efficent things can be. For example, when I want quick metrics on bunch of servers I just invoke flea rather then having to mess with nagios, zabix or friends. Look how readable that is: https://github.com/majkinetor/flea https://github.com/majkinetor/flea On my latest project I use powershell to do everything - configure Solaris, install and oracle database, configure and install and manage weblogic servers etc. Powershell is wrapping bash/python/awk/whatever scripts and provides consistent interface for all service operations. Vendor engineers didn't initially want to do it and it turned out that what my company does in 10 minutes they do in an hour. Now they all want it. The best you can hope in your situation is that the 'truth' will come out from your actions, but you will have to push it also, people are usually enjoying the comforts of technologies that they are experienced with especially with harsh dead lines. Give it time, and try to get more influental positions. If nothing works, find suitable alternative, posh is not the only stuff in the world. If that is not possible, you don't need job that bad IMO.

YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
I've long since moved on from that position, and that company, so no worries there. I'd be worried about this however: >> I am head of development in my company. I make standards and learn others WHY. They soon all become groopies It's easy to get people to agree to everything you say if you're their boss. It's good to keep that in mind, always. For myself, I've had the best experiences and learned the most when I had senior devs who listened and were willing to mentor, rather than impose their will. Of course, up to a certain extent, if you set up processes in a certain way and then hire people to execute them, and they agree to come onboard, there's no issue of forcing them to do as you say. If they don't like it, they can go somewhere else. Still, I think the best lesson I got from that job where people didn't want to listen to the junior dev (me) is that you should always be open to advice from all levels in the company hierarchy.
- majkinetor 10y ago
  I work for government. You can't really impose anything on people in gov, three are no reprecussions for not listening to the boss. > You should always be open to advice from all levels in the company hierarchy. I agree 120%. I don't really care what's your position in the company. I am practical person - if you can prove me that I suck I will be happy to change. But I do need proof that new concept works in real world - so many things look good on the paper and you need to digest stuff fully. Currently, my best brainstorm partner can't be lower in the company, but he is driven by pure passion.
chris_wot 10y ago
If you head development, then you have the power to demand evidence. But I'm afraid for a variety of reasons I work for a company that has outsourced their work to several good offshore folks, but mostly the most bone-headed, incompetent, inexperienced, dishonest bunch of people o have ever come across (and that's truly saying something). I'm also currently low down the food chain and so like most people I have to rather wary about making specific demands. I might also mention that I discovered this outsourcer was doing all commands from a root shell, so I now refuse to give specific commands but ask fir the info but I am very deliberate in not giving them the specific commands to get the data. That said, what I would give to do what you seem to get away with :-)
- majkinetor 10y ago
  That is so typical for majority of vendors and the company you work for is irrelevant - I have seen that behavior from all major IT vendors and it is not culture or location specific. I get away with it frequently but not always. You can't imagine how many times I got response 'nobody ever asked that'. What I usually do when that happens is to do one case of their work entirely myself to show a complete working example in real life scenario. That requires certain knowledge about domain in question. I have experience in bunch of tools, platforms and paradigms so I know how to do it about 70% of the time. When I don't, or don't have time for it, I just let it go. But no matter your position, its very probable that your voice will be listened over that of a vendor consultant so if you can educate your boss with WHY (if not, you could go higher or try to influence someone else who can influence the person you want) there is a chance that your words will be taken before that of the external consultant.
holydude 10y ago
You sound like a person I really would not want to work with. I wonder why such attitude always comes from serbs and bulgarians but if anything the way you present your opinions is toxic.
- majkinetor 10y ago
  Oh, cmon, you hurt my feelings now...

YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago

I've long since moved on from that position, and that company, so no worries there. I'd be worried about this however: >> I am head of development in my company. I make standards and learn others WHY. They soon all become groopies It's easy to get people to agree to everything you say if you're their boss. It's good to keep that in mind, always. For myself, I've had the best experiences and learned the most when I had senior devs who listened and were willing to mentor, rather than impose their will. Of course, up to a certain extent, if you set up processes in a certain way and then hire people to execute them, and they agree to come onboard, there's no issue of forcing them to do as you say. If they don't like it, they can go somewhere else. Still, I think the best lesson I got from that job where people didn't want to listen to the junior dev (me) is that you should always be open to advice from all levels in the company hierarchy.

majkinetor 10y ago
I work for government. You can't really impose anything on people in gov, three are no reprecussions for not listening to the boss. > You should always be open to advice from all levels in the company hierarchy. I agree 120%. I don't really care what's your position in the company. I am practical person - if you can prove me that I suck I will be happy to change. But I do need proof that new concept works in real world - so many things look good on the paper and you need to digest stuff fully. Currently, my best brainstorm partner can't be lower in the company, but he is driven by pure passion.

chris_wot 10y ago

If you head development, then you have the power to demand evidence. But I'm afraid for a variety of reasons I work for a company that has outsourced their work to several good offshore folks, but mostly the most bone-headed, incompetent, inexperienced, dishonest bunch of people o have ever come across (and that's truly saying something). I'm also currently low down the food chain and so like most people I have to rather wary about making specific demands. I might also mention that I discovered this outsourcer was doing all commands from a root shell, so I now refuse to give specific commands but ask fir the info but I am very deliberate in not giving them the specific commands to get the data. That said, what I would give to do what you seem to get away with :-)

majkinetor 10y ago
That is so typical for majority of vendors and the company you work for is irrelevant - I have seen that behavior from all major IT vendors and it is not culture or location specific. I get away with it frequently but not always. You can't imagine how many times I got response 'nobody ever asked that'. What I usually do when that happens is to do one case of their work entirely myself to show a complete working example in real life scenario. That requires certain knowledge about domain in question. I have experience in bunch of tools, platforms and paradigms so I know how to do it about 70% of the time. When I don't, or don't have time for it, I just let it go. But no matter your position, its very probable that your voice will be listened over that of a vendor consultant so if you can educate your boss with WHY (if not, you could go higher or try to influence someone else who can influence the person you want) there is a chance that your words will be taken before that of the external consultant.

holydude 10y ago

You sound like a person I really would not want to work with. I wonder why such attitude always comes from serbs and bulgarians but if anything the way you present your opinions is toxic.

majkinetor 10y ago
Oh, cmon, you hurt my feelings now...