4 ms·

'Will I really feel loved and desired and truly adored at last?' I laughed at this sentence because no married man I know feels this way. Many of them are just

'Will I really feel loved and desired and truly adored at last?' I laughed at this sentence because no married man I know feels this way. Many of them are just belittled and controlled and disrespected. Most of the romance I see around is pleasing the wife at the expense of the husband. An old friend of mine – a math Phd – was persuaded by wife's family to give up all his dreams and an ambitious career so that she could keep teaching in the local middle/high schools. He's going to be a work drone in dilbert hell for the rest of his life. He's mostly treated like a butler. It's just sad and depressing.

jacobolus 10y ago
Sounds like your collection of friends generally made poor life decisions in their choice of partners and/or have their own emotional hang-ups related to career–life balance, frustrated ambitions, housework, .. I recommend against projecting this depressing anecdotal evidence on the whole world though. As a counter-anecdote, most of my long-married friends seem to respect and get along pretty well with their spouses.
PaulRobinson 10y ago
You need to find better role models for healthy relationships. Reading this is like reading the comments of somebody in their mid-20s who has known nothing but abusive relationships and been rejected multiple times who has decided all relationships are disgusting. If that is the case for you, I hope you can open your mind enough to being loved by somebody who can show you the truth. I don't know any couple who belittle or control each other, and certainly don't disrespect each other. If I did, I'd recommend they get the hell away from each other as quickly as possible. Romance is not about pleasing one person at the expense of the other, it's about two people who love each other exploring the mystery of that love. I've been with my partner for over 7 years. She's my best friend. We respect each other, and if one of us thinks the other one is not taking our own needs into account we talk about it and compromise. The fact that your friend has chosen to prioritise his wife's feelings over his career is his choice. If he hasn't made it gladly and freely, then he needs to get out.
phkahler 10y ago
>> Many of them are just belittled and controlled and disrespected. Those guys are pathetic. They probably get courtesy sex every month or two right? A proper man takes charge of his own life first, which provides a sense of security to his wife, which is what she wants and respects. If he can't pass her shit-tests, how's he going to get by in the real world?
- jonstewart 10y ago
  ESR, is that you?
- ryanmarsh 10y ago
  Kudos, I was debating whether to add some "married TRP" advice into this but didn't want to burn the karma on it. First, most HN'ers would have to be convinced of the reality of their spouses decidedly very antifeminist evolutionary psychology before you could even begin to talk about strategies for addressing it.
  - phkahler 10y ago
    The first rule is not to mention TRP directly - you know it can be too toxic for the random person on the street. I was hoping the parent would take the bread crumb and google "shit-tests" though. Also, IDGAF about a few karma points on hacker news.
    - ryanmarsh 10y ago
      You're right. My mistake. First rule of TRP.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
pluma 10y ago
There's less awareness surrounding abusive relationships where men are the victims because it goes against the cultural trope of manliness, but what you describe is an abusive relationship. Psychological abuse is a form of domestic abuse even if it's not something you can easily call the cops over. There are plenty of unhealthy relationships among married couples because of traditional views that "marriage is forever" and if you get a divorce, you're a failure. Luckily where I live these social pressures have become much weaker and this experience seems to be less common than a few generations ago. This has nothing to do with marriage (or any other committed long-term relationship) itself, however. Of course these relationships are about compromises but it's highly subjective what compromises you are willing to make and what compromises you can make without being unhappy. In a healthy relationship both partners should care about the mental and emotional well-being of the other. That also includes preventing the partner from compromising where they shouldn't and being respectful enough to their needs to tell them if things can't work out. It doesn't sound like that happened in the relationships you describe. It's actually pretty common for women to seem more "controlling" in relationships. This doesn't even have anything to do with feminism, the trope of the "henpecked husband" has been around for a long term. But that's not a problem in itself. Also, behaviour that could seem condescending to outsiders can actually be part of a healthy relationship as long as both partners have a shared understanding of what they are comfortable with and in what context. It can be very difficult to determine whether a relationship is healthy or not if you lack the full knowledge of these dynamics.

jacobolus 10y ago

Sounds like your collection of friends generally made poor life decisions in their choice of partners and/or have their own emotional hang-ups related to career–life balance, frustrated ambitions, housework, .. I recommend against projecting this depressing anecdotal evidence on the whole world though. As a counter-anecdote, most of my long-married friends seem to respect and get along pretty well with their spouses.

PaulRobinson 10y ago

You need to find better role models for healthy relationships. Reading this is like reading the comments of somebody in their mid-20s who has known nothing but abusive relationships and been rejected multiple times who has decided all relationships are disgusting. If that is the case for you, I hope you can open your mind enough to being loved by somebody who can show you the truth. I don't know any couple who belittle or control each other, and certainly don't disrespect each other. If I did, I'd recommend they get the hell away from each other as quickly as possible. Romance is not about pleasing one person at the expense of the other, it's about two people who love each other exploring the mystery of that love. I've been with my partner for over 7 years. She's my best friend. We respect each other, and if one of us thinks the other one is not taking our own needs into account we talk about it and compromise. The fact that your friend has chosen to prioritise his wife's feelings over his career is his choice. If he hasn't made it gladly and freely, then he needs to get out.

phkahler 10y ago

>> Many of them are just belittled and controlled and disrespected. Those guys are pathetic. They probably get courtesy sex every month or two right? A proper man takes charge of his own life first, which provides a sense of security to his wife, which is what she wants and respects. If he can't pass her shit-tests, how's he going to get by in the real world?

jonstewart 10y ago
ESR, is that you?
ryanmarsh 10y ago
Kudos, I was debating whether to add some "married TRP" advice into this but didn't want to burn the karma on it. First, most HN'ers would have to be convinced of the reality of their spouses decidedly very antifeminist evolutionary psychology before you could even begin to talk about strategies for addressing it.
- phkahler 10y ago
  The first rule is not to mention TRP directly - you know it can be too toxic for the random person on the street. I was hoping the parent would take the bread crumb and google "shit-tests" though. Also, IDGAF about a few karma points on hacker news.
  - ryanmarsh 10y ago
    You're right. My mistake. First rule of TRP.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]

pluma 10y ago

There's less awareness surrounding abusive relationships where men are the victims because it goes against the cultural trope of manliness, but what you describe is an abusive relationship. Psychological abuse is a form of domestic abuse even if it's not something you can easily call the cops over. There are plenty of unhealthy relationships among married couples because of traditional views that "marriage is forever" and if you get a divorce, you're a failure. Luckily where I live these social pressures have become much weaker and this experience seems to be less common than a few generations ago. This has nothing to do with marriage (or any other committed long-term relationship) itself, however. Of course these relationships are about compromises but it's highly subjective what compromises you are willing to make and what compromises you can make without being unhappy. In a healthy relationship both partners should care about the mental and emotional well-being of the other. That also includes preventing the partner from compromising where they shouldn't and being respectful enough to their needs to tell them if things can't work out. It doesn't sound like that happened in the relationships you describe. It's actually pretty common for women to seem more "controlling" in relationships. This doesn't even have anything to do with feminism, the trope of the "henpecked husband" has been around for a long term. But that's not a problem in itself. Also, behaviour that could seem condescending to outsiders can actually be part of a healthy relationship as long as both partners have a shared understanding of what they are comfortable with and in what context. It can be very difficult to determine whether a relationship is healthy or not if you lack the full knowledge of these dynamics.