13 ms·

The Case for Ubuntu Phone

99 points by reddotX 10y ago

benevol 10y ago
What I urgently need to see before I can buy an Ubuntu phone is an integrated 1-click backup solution: I want to connect my Ubuntu phone to my Ubuntu notebook and click "Backup now", to have everything I need synced to my notebook (and not to some "cloud"/somebody else's server).
- popey 10y ago
  In lieu of such a tool, I wrote a crappy shell script to backup my Ubuntu Phones. :) https://github.com/popey/buds https://github.com/popey/buds
  - benevol 10y ago
    Thanks. It's just that the average user will never accept such hurdles. An automated backup solution is really one of the most important things to have in phones. No backup solution means one must be OK with losing all the data as soon as the phone gets stolen or lost.
    - popey 10y ago
      Indeed. I wrote that before there was a backup tool built into Ubuntu Phone. I saw a demo of the backup tool a few months back, but don't know if it landed yet.
      - benevol 10y ago
        > don't know if it landed yet. How can the consumer know about all currently available features in Ubuntu phones? A dedicated page for that would allow one to check "if Ubuntu is ready for me".
        popey 10y ago
        It's a bit academic right now as there are no Ubuntu phones on sale, but yes, that would be a great page to make.
        AgentME 10y ago
        There are Ubuntu tablets on sale now, which run about the same software as far as I know.
        a2800276 10y ago
        Only they're sold out.
        Yakkety1610 10y ago
        Tablets here (top choice): https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=BQ+Ubuntu https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%...
- messo 10y ago
  Have you checked out Syncthing?
  - benevol 10y ago
    Looks interesting, thanks. (The average Joe however will require a solution similar to iTunes's backup feature.)
- deleted 10y ago
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deleted 10y ago
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slitaz 10y ago
With the new Android versions, it is far more difficult to get tools like xposed to reclaim some of the privacy and control back. Having a usable alternative is essential.
rcarmo 10y ago
I applaud the OP's bravery, but after a long, long time in the telco business and having seen many attempts from multiple platforms towards gaining a foothold (Symbian, Maemo, LiMo - including Vodafone's own version - Bada, etc.), I have to point out that Ubuntu Phone, despite the vision and values behind it, is at a massively overwhelming disadvantage in terms of both telco appeal (what I and my former colleagues still in the device procurement part of the telco business have seen so far has no compelling advantage over Android) and ecosystem. Even if selling off-telco worked, the one problem I see is the lack of that ecosystem, or a way to bootstrap it, because if it ran Android apps (and therefore fracture the user experience) that would not ensure developer adoption... And most people only want a "good enough" phone that lets them run apps and a few games, which further compounds the problem -- the value of Ubuntu Phone Just isn't apparent to them, which is sad.
- giancarlostoro 10y ago
  I think the biggest thing that could probably help the Ubuntu Phone is an approachable development environment. If the road to developing apps for a phone is short enough, that people on their weekend make apps for it, it will expand rapidly with apps. This requires great tooling, and documentation. Potentially even adoption of a programming language that either comes with a powerful SDK or is tailored from the ground up for this purpose, or forked. We've seen this type of boom with Go. Go has a LOT of out of the box functionality, and Python does too, it is what makes people stick to them once they like them in my opinion. However, tooling and documentation are key. I know Ubuntu has Ubuntu Make, but it still has a long way to go. If they can make a great development ecosystem, they can bring in a number of developers.
  - deleted 10y ago
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  - simonh 10y ago
    They should be targeting OEMs and telcos as their primary customers and a first class dev environment is key to that. The reason Android AOSP is so widely available is it's free, is trivial to port to new hardware and is easy to customise. Since ORMS and telcos are the gatekeepers to anything reaching customers, appealing to them has to come first. Fail to attract them and it doesn't matter how popular you might have been with customers, because they'll never even get to see your product.
giancarlostoro 10y ago
I would love to have a Ubuntu Phone, but my carrier in the US probably doesn't support such phones yet as far as I'm aware. If they can sooner reach the multiple carriers in this side of the globe effectively (and hopefully not AT&T first, kind of sick of everyone going to them first) then that would help the ecosystem currently going on. I am not enjoying the options left. I loved Android at first because it is based on Linux, but I don't feel like I'm using Linux, I just feel like I'm using the only other option left. I like the few freedoms Android gives me at least, but it takes more effort than if I had Ubuntu installed on a computer to do anything useful on it. Amazon tried, but why would I want to stop being locked down by one tech giant just to be locked down to the next. A phone should have the essentials, nothing forcefully locked into the phone. I can't uninstall Facebook, Instagram, or Messenger from my phone without rooting. If one day they all shut down that becomes a completely useless set of applications. Years from now I should still be able to text and call though? I should be able to change the apps that do those things too either way! If the manufacturer stops supporting them for example. I love the freedom of Linux, and Android never feels like it yet. I hope Ubuntu comes to America and becomes highly available everywhere. I also hope competitors are allowed, or Distros. Would be nice to see alternative phones. I don't want to be locked down as much as I love Google, they shouldn't have total control of my phone, neither should Apple, or Canonical. At least Canonical respects that.
- udp 10y ago
  > I would love to have a Ubuntu Phone, but my carrier in the US probably doesn't support such phones yet as far as I'm aware. How does that work? Does the carrier have to support each new brand of phone? I don't think we have a system like that here in the UK. I have an iPhone 6 paid for with a monthly contract, but I was using a ~2002 Nokia feature phone recently while it was away for repair.
  - sverige 10y ago
    Just went through this research again for the first time in five or six years. One of the most frustrating things about US carriers is that they force manufacturers to limit their offerings in this market. For example, dual SIM card phones are not offered on any phones built for the US market, since carriers make a lot of their money from financing new phones. There are also phones with three and four SIM cards made for other markets. Need two (or three or four) numbers? In the US, you have to buy two (or three or four) phones. AT&T and T-Mobile use the GSM protocol on their networks, which is the protocol used in the rest of the world. The 2G bands use different frequencies in this hemisphere than the frequencies used in Europe and Asia. The 3G and 4G and LTE bands are different yet, but the basic protocol is the same, so if the radio works, the phone works. Sprint and Verizon use a different protocol called CDMA which is incompatible with GSM. Phones designed for foreign markets do not work at all on their networks. So to summarize, barriers built using different protocols and marketing limit the ability for US consumers to treat their handset for what it is (a commodity) and help lock them in to one of two carriers. This is why Apple and Samsung can get away with charging $600+ for devices that cost a very small fraction of that to manufacture using impoverished laborers. I just bought a 2G Philips dual SIM phone made in China for the Russian market that will work on T-mobile's US 2G network. (It will not work on AT&T since they turned off their 2G network on January 1.) I plan to use two SIM cards for the two numbers I have, and to limit mobile data to a tablet for those times when I absolutely need it. Everything else (paying bills, looking for work, shopping, playing games, getting directions, etc.) will be done on a laptop or desktop. I would welcome reform of the US cell market, but I'm not holding my breath for that to happen. They simply have too much power, and most Americans are completely unaware that it could be any different or better.
Santosh83 10y ago
FOSS software running phones/tablets is currently at roughly the same place FOSS software on the PC was at the turn of the millenium, and now reports indicate that Linux on the PC/laptop is gaining more and more notice from vendors each year, something no one could've dreamnt of during the monopolistic haydays of MS. So whether or not it gains traction from telcos and the average consumer, a functioning alternative to closed ecosystems is justified by its very existence and the ever-present possibility that a combination of factors can at any moment cause it to rise to the forefront. But it can win only if it's still in the ring right?
mamon 10y ago
I would like to try Ubuntu Phone but I cannot find it anywhere. Canonical's page says that all devices are out of stock, various online stores say exactly the same thing, and all the devices that are listed as compatibile (Nexus 5 for instance) are two generations old and also hard to come by. The only option I haven't tried is buying used phone on eBay, because they usually come in pretty bad shape so I want brand new device. Please Canonical, get your shit together and release SOMETHING, pretty much any device with 4.5 inch screen 2GB RAM and 32GB flash will do.
- 3arn0wl 10y ago
  If you'd really like to try Ubuntu, your best option for now might be to get hold of a cheap, second hand Nexus. Ubuntu are about to change the OS to 64bit Core and Snap, and there's not much on the market yet that can run it. They are going to keep supporting the current system for a while longer though.
- slitaz 10y ago
  You can get the tablet bq M10 now. Or you can preorder the Fair phone 2, the version with Ubuntu preinstalled.
  - Paul_O_Meany_Jr 10y ago
    The Fairphone 2 doesn't come with Ubuntu preinstalled and the project to run the OS on the phone is community based and in progress. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-fairphone-2-port-update http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-fairphone-2-port-u... https://forum.fairphone.com/t/fairphone-2-ubuntu-touch/23475 https://forum.fairphone.com/t/fairphone-2-ubuntu-touch/23475
  - Fnoord 10y ago
    You can run a version of Android without Google ("Google Mobile Services") on FP2. This is called Fairphone Open OS [1]. [1] https://code.fairphone.com/ https://code.fairphone.com/
- wvh 10y ago
  Same with Jolla – my first gen is breaking and I can't buy a replacement running Sailfish at this moment. I like Sailfish and I'm interested in Ubuntu Phone, but clearly they seem to have some issues convincing manufacturers to release some hardware with these alternative systems. I hope maybe Fairphone and Puzzlephone could become open mobile hardware devices with at least semi-official support for multiple open operating systems because I'm not quite brave enough to start hacking mobile devices to run Linux.
vegabook 10y ago
But I can't actually buy an Ubuntu phone anymore. And I want to because I lost me aquaris E5. This is not a good situation even for the most committed and patient early adopters (like me).
- slitaz 10y ago
  Have a look at the Fairphone 2. It is on preorder and can get the Ubuntu veraion.
edent 10y ago
The problem is, Ubuntu is completely unsuitable for a mobile phone or tablet. I bought one last year and had to return it because it was functionally unusable - https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2016/05/the-ubuntu-tablet-a-review-of-the-aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2016/05/the-ubuntu-tablet-a-review-... The OS doesn't support modern features like multi-touch, many apps require a physical keyboard, it can't connect reliably to Bluetooth devices, app switching doesn't work - even icons are missing from certain apps! There's no app store to speak of, just a small collection of apps which haven't received even rudimentary testing. That's before we even get to the lack of "killer" apps like Angry Birds, Dropbox, Spotify. > Carriers are also interested in this flexibility. No, they aren't. I've just finished 10 years in European telcos - they don't care about flexibility. They care about profit margin and making sure that people don't ring call centres to complain about broken hardware. My old employer (O2) sells a bunch of Cyanogen based Android devices - because the cost is right and the services are good enough. Ubuntu isn't even close to competing with that yet. > Some they may provide themselves and some by well known providers; but by not being able to select options for those base services they have less flexibility on what they can do. This is factually incorrect. Providers (in the UK at least) are able to bundle services and apps with iPhones, Android, Windows Phone. I've worked with handset manufacturers to add DropBox, replace DropBox with something else, have apps preinstalled, remove bloatware - and everything in-between. > So that effectively makes it difficult for the carriers as well as alternate service providers (e.g. Dropbox, Spotify, etc) to compete. Again, that's not really true. Dropbox has a multi-million dollar marketing budget. If your new service can pay an operator €10 per customer - guess what - they'll push you to the front of the user's home screen. > I think that Ubuntu Phone has the fundamental DNA to win in this race. I don't. I've installed Ubuntu on my MacBooks, my laptops, my servers, and my TV's media box. It's a brilliant OS. But it doesn't work on touchscreens. It cannot meet the efficiency demands of small battery devices. It has no alternative services which even come close to what's on the market. I love Ubuntu - but I wouldn't let it near any of my phones.
- soneil 10y ago
  I had pretty much exactly the same experience with Ubuntu Touch (but on an Aquaris phone). All in all I found the window manager a frustrating and horrible experience. But the one "killer app" I really missed was email. There's precisely one native app, and it fails to load subfolders in imap. A "free" OS feels like a petty distinction when the only (usable) applications are wrappers for mobile sites.
hd4 10y ago
The most logical thing for Ubuntu Phone to do would be to start out with making some kind of ROM that people could sideload onto their existing Android. The people who first started out using Ubuntu were interested enough and wanted an alternative to Windows badly enough that they didn't mind installing it as a replacement. Why can't Ubuntu Phone start out as a replacement to Android? The only "problem" being that Android has not really messed up too badly yet, other than in making everything go through the Google Play Services and shutting out AOSP and leaving it stuck in 2009. And yes there is a ROM out there but it's not available on enough devices to create enough of a stir. This is the mistake Canonical is making, and they might regret leaving the job of porting to popular devices up to the 'community' (read: volunteers) instead of paying a team of developers to just get the ROM working to a point where it is a half-decent alternative to even Cyanogenmod. Microsoft made that same mistake before the iPhone and never really recovered.
- Brakenshire 10y ago
  I think this is relatively easy if you have the right phone. I think you can even install MultiROM through the app store, and then install Ubuntu Touch alongside your existing Android installation. https://2buntu.com/articles/1510/installing-ubuntu-touch-with-multirom/ https://2buntu.com/articles/1510/installing-ubuntu-touch-wit... You're right about the half-hearted device support, though.
- dsr_ 10y ago
  And they should write a porting guide, first thing. Start with setting up a dev environment and cross-compiler. Then they should do a sample port to some very easy to obtain hardware, a Chinese $100 GSM phone, and document the whole process step-by-step. If you want wide support, you need to leverage enthusiasm.
  - BuuQu9hu 10y ago
    They have a porting guide here: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/porting-new-device/ https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/porting-new-de... Cross-compilers have been available for a while now.
oelmekki 10y ago
The paragraph focused on carriers in this article makes me wonder : can ubuntu mobile guarantee OEM won't install any uninstallable apps as well? I only buy nexus phones precisely because I don't want the carriers and OEM stuff, they always have been a bad experience for me. I can see how "build your own bundle" is a selling point for carriers, but it's hardly one for users. That being said, I'm excited to see a true linux mobile distro. I've tried it on my nexus 7 when most apps were placeholders, can't wait to see a viable one. Any chance to have dual boot?
- Brakenshire 10y ago
  > The paragraph focused on carriers in this article makes me wonder : can ubuntu mobile guarantee OEM won't install any uninstallable apps as well? It looks like he's saying that Ubuntu gives carriers more flexibility to bundle in alternative apps and services, as you say it would be interesting to know whether Ubuntu will agree to carriers making those services uninstallable. My guess is Ubuntu do not have the clout to stop that, and still get sold through that channel. I would say there will always be a distinction between phones you buy directly and those bundled with contracts. The latter will always involve that kind of influence from the carriers. One compromise could be it comes locked down, but includes some non-obvious but relatively easy way to root the system, and open it up completely.
- slitaz 10y ago
  With the present phones, Canonical provides all the packages and the full ROM files. There is no feature yet for phones that cannot be rooted so I do not see such risk. There is a feature for Snapdragon SoCs that can enable dual-boot. For others, it is still difficult or impossible.
3arn0wl 10y ago
Actually, I think the USP for Ubuntu Phone is not the saturated smartphone market we now have, but the truly mobile computer in your pocket market that both Canonical & Micro$oft are striving to reach. It remains to be seen who'll get there first and do it better!
akjainaj 10y ago
>Another good answer is all the benefits of Free Software, but many of those are benefits the general public doesn’t yet realize they need. So if they don't agree those benefits are needed, it's because they are wrong/inexperienced/misled/stupid/...? You think people should care about privacy and "openness of the software", whatever that is (most people can't code, so they rightfully don't care about the availability of the source code of the OS or apps). What most people (including myself) care about, instead, is ease of use and reliability. You'll never catch up with the ease of use and reliability of iOS (not even Android can, and then not even Microsoft could catch up with Android), that's why Firefox OS failed and your mobile OS will fail as well.
- Brakenshire 10y ago
  > You think people should care about privacy and "openness of the software", whatever that is (most people can't code, so they rightfully don't care about the availability of the source code of the OS or apps). What most people (including myself) care about, instead, is ease of use and reliability. If you talk to inexperienced computer users, probably the most common complaint you will get is that software they are using is being changed underneath them, after they have got used to it. You could turn around your argument 180 degrees, and still be equally valid in saying that it the walled garden 'we will do what is best for you' attitude is actually about saying that users "don't agree those benefits are needed, because they are wrong/inexperienced/misled/stupid/...?"
  - akjainaj 10y ago
    >If you talk to inexperienced computer users, probably the most common complaint you will get is that software they are using is being changed underneath them, after they have got used to it. Open source projects do that all the time too. Think of GNOME 2 -> 3, and compare it to iOS 6 -> 7. >the walled garden 'we will do what is best for you' attitude If we take Apple as an example, their attitude is "we will do what makes us sell more", which aligns with what users will want the software to do, otherwise they lose a sale. On the other hand since nobody uses Ubuntu Phone, Canonical will do whatever they want with it, knowing they'll get almost no complains. So which one serves the user better?
mtgx 10y ago
> The biggest strength and weakness of Ubuntu Phone is that it’s a device without an intrinsic set of services. If you buy an Android device you get Google Services. If you buy an iPhone you get Apple services. I think what you may get with a "popular" mainstream Ubuntu phone platform will be a lot worse - like Canonical allowing companies to install their own services/crapware, but worse than it already is for Android phones.
andrewclunn 10y ago
PCs have interchangeable components that are built around standards. So if it's easier to write for them in an abstracted way. Vendors control the hardware for their phones. They have no interest in enabling people to remove their Android flavor, with built in crapware. Open source phone OSes will come, but only after we've reduced the smart phone to a commodity and market forces have compelled standardization through economy of scale.
heheocoenev 10y ago
I own a Ubuntu phone, Aquaris E4.5, imported from Spain via a EU dropshipper. Wouldn't use it as my daily phone until it supported full disk encryption.
opless 10y ago
"What I find most interesting thing about this discussion is that it is the original reason that Google bought Android. They were concerned that with Apple controlling the smartphone market they’d be in a position to damage Google’s ability to compete in services" Google bought android in 2005. Apple release iPhone in 2007. Do what now? I'd love a truly linux-based phone. Though it's unlikely that you'll ever get "root" on a commercial offering. Mobile phone providers don't like you being able to monkey about with the phone too much.
- ClassyJacket 10y ago
  Rumours of Apple making a smartphone were strong for years before they actually announced one.
  - opless 10y ago
    They only started working on a phone in 2005 according to the wiki page. Yes, there were rumours for years ... ever since the Newton.
    - rimantas 10y ago
      IIRC first prototypes were made in 2004 and were more iPads than iPhones
- infosample 10y ago
  Google bought Android to prevent a Microsoft monopoly.
- BuuQu9hu 10y ago
  Android phones are Linux-based and you can often get root via fastboot or some exploits.
quanticle 10y ago
The biggest strength and weakness of Ubuntu Phone is that it's a device without an intrinsic set of services. If you buy an Android device, you get Google Services. If you buy an iPhone, you get Apple services. What he's missing is that the device is pretty much useless without the services. The services are as necessary to the functionality of the device as say, filesystem drivers are on an operating system. Yes, it's possible to have an operating system without filesystem drivers, but it's not going to be very useful to your average consumer. Similarly, it's possible to have a smartphone without location services, or push notifications, but it's not going to be very useful. While these can be strengths (at least in Google's case) they are effectively a lock in to services that may or may not meet your requirements. You certainly can get Telegram or Signal for either of those, but they're never going to be as integrated as Hangouts or iMessage. This goes throughout the device including things like music and storage as well. I don't know what he means with regards to "storage" (cloud storage, perhaps?) but when it comes to messaging, I find that Telegram actually makes a better text messaging application than Hangouts. The UI is easier, it's easier to scan through archived messages, and it's faster. That's leaving aside the obvious privacy improvements that Telegram brings over Hangouts. Similarly, I find that Spotify does a better job of handling music on Android than Google Play Music. It has better integration with its desktop client, better sync, and it doesn't lose its network connection when switching from wifi to LTE. Android already has the strengths and disadvantages of Ubuntu Phone (mostly thanks to Google's incompetence). I'm not sure what Ubuntu Phone brings to the table that would make it better than Android. Right now, it appears to be an OS like Android with many fewer apps, and even more headaches when it comes to cloud services.
- jasonkostempski 10y ago
  If they're trying to target the same customers that buy Apple and Android for the services and all the other skin-deep beauty, I think they're going to fail for sure. Hopefully, there's enough people that just want a general purpose computer with and open source operating system that just happens to include cellular internet connection (bonuses for me would be a a hardware keyboard, is at a size that actually fits in your pocket and has a hard switch to disconnect it from the network). I would also gladly pay more, even with the inconveniences that might come with such a device. I hope they target something like that and there are enough people that want it.
LostWanderer 10y ago
I also liked the concept of Firefox basic phone.. It was interesting to have smart features in a feature phone
rsync 10y ago
We really need something like "GNU phoneutils" ... a big package of command line utilities to control and manipulate a telephone. I really, really want to do things like this: cat file | sms -send -n 4157771234 grep mom addresses | awk (field with phonenumber) | dial --nobusy --retry 3 That is to say, I want a unix phone. I want to run the phone with unix and unix commands. Certainly not all of the time, but some of the time I would like the power to manipulate dialing/texting/answering in this way. I am not aware of any utilities like this - collected in a big package or not ...
- dqv 10y ago
  You could try freeswitch which has some fun cli stuff. mod_portaudio lets you make and take calls from your terminal (although you have to use fs_cli, but you can alias dial to fs_cli -x"pa call $1"). There are a few sms modules as well.
- atmin 10y ago
  You kinda can do it on Android via Termux: https://termux.com/add-on-api.html https://termux.com/add-on-api.html
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Hrmf, 5.0 or newer. And here I was wondering if I could get some extra mileage out of my older devices...
- BuuQu9hu 10y ago
  Closest you can get is sending DBUS commands to oFono or FSO. Should be easy to write a command-line wrapper for those though.
Steveoz5 10y ago
Many comments same/similar to "I would like to try Ubuntu Phone but I cannot find it anywhere." Well, I got tired of waiting, so I bought a NEW Meizu Pro 5 (Flyme Edition) and installed Ubuntu. Works great. New phone, with warranty, running Ubuntu. What's more, the Pro 5 runs a Exynos 7420 (ARMv8-A) so is likely to run the Xenial based snap image when released by Canonical.
Steveoz5 10y ago
Many comments same/similar to "I would like to try Ubuntu Phone but I cannot find it anywhere." Well, I got tired of waiting, so I bought a NEW Meizu Pro 5 (Flyme Edition) and installed Ubuntu. Works great. New phone, with warranty, running Ubuntu. What's more the Pro 5 runs a Exynos 7420 (ARMv8-A) so is likely to run the Xenial based snap image when released by Canonical.
throw2016 10y ago
A interesting effort by Ubuntu that could have potentially enriched the ecosystem for users but hardware and drivers in the tightly closed Arm and Google ecosystem is a significant challenge. Or we would be able to install Linux on our devices ourselves. Its curious these devices work flawlessly with Android but cannot even boot with Linux. Or if it boots none of the functionality works. The drivers are there and they work on 'Linux' just fine but somehow they are never available on Linux. Folks here get worked up about insignificant chinese companies when this is totally in the control of Arm and Google. Its now tiring to see open source developers struggle incessantly to get information from ARM for over 5 years and the ball is kicked from ARM to the OEM both claiming the other has denied permission and this goes on. There are always promises and excuses but never any results.
gary23 10y ago
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jasonvorhe 10y ago
Reading this I'm totally confused what he's talking about: On Android, Telegram is miles ahead of Hangouts & Allo in terms of UX, feature support and performance, while Google Drive feels like a completely wasted opportunity for a storage service by Google on their own platform. Hangouts even ships being disabled per default on their flagship Pixel phones. Instead of growing the amount of apps OEMs need to preinstall to get access to the Play Store, they reduce it, year by year. Even after all these years Android is still designed to be an OS where every company could offer Google-like services and integrate them like Google does. I'd be surprised if the author actually used an Android device in the last years.
sreenadh 10y ago
What we really need is a good device. A device with proper open standards so that we can install Ubuntu or Jolla or Cyanogenmod or any other future OSs. We can get some standard devices by some OEMs.

99 points by reddotX 10y ago

What I urgently need to see before I can buy an Ubuntu phone is an integrated 1-click backup solution: I want to connect my Ubuntu phone to my Ubuntu notebook and click "Backup now", to have everything I need synced to my notebook (and not to some "cloud"/somebody else's server).

popey 10y ago
In lieu of such a tool, I wrote a crappy shell script to backup my Ubuntu Phones. :) https://github.com/popey/buds https://github.com/popey/buds
- benevol 10y ago
  Thanks. It's just that the average user will never accept such hurdles. An automated backup solution is really one of the most important things to have in phones. No backup solution means one must be OK with losing all the data as soon as the phone gets stolen or lost.
  - popey 10y ago
    Indeed. I wrote that before there was a backup tool built into Ubuntu Phone. I saw a demo of the backup tool a few months back, but don't know if it landed yet.
    - benevol 10y ago
      > don't know if it landed yet. How can the consumer know about all currently available features in Ubuntu phones? A dedicated page for that would allow one to check "if Ubuntu is ready for me".
      - popey 10y ago
        It's a bit academic right now as there are no Ubuntu phones on sale, but yes, that would be a great page to make.
        AgentME 10y ago
        There are Ubuntu tablets on sale now, which run about the same software as far as I know.
        a2800276 10y ago
        Only they're sold out.
        Yakkety1610 10y ago
        Tablets here (top choice): https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%C3%85%C5%BD%C3%95%C3%91&url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=BQ+Ubuntu https://www.amazon.es/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?__mk_es_ES=%C3%85M%...
messo 10y ago
Have you checked out Syncthing?
- benevol 10y ago
  Looks interesting, thanks. (The average Joe however will require a solution similar to iTunes's backup feature.)
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slitaz 10y ago

With the new Android versions, it is far more difficult to get tools like xposed to reclaim some of the privacy and control back. Having a usable alternative is essential.

rcarmo 10y ago

I applaud the OP's bravery, but after a long, long time in the telco business and having seen many attempts from multiple platforms towards gaining a foothold (Symbian, Maemo, LiMo - including Vodafone's own version - Bada, etc.), I have to point out that Ubuntu Phone, despite the vision and values behind it, is at a massively overwhelming disadvantage in terms of both telco appeal (what I and my former colleagues still in the device procurement part of the telco business have seen so far has no compelling advantage over Android) and ecosystem. Even if selling off-telco worked, the one problem I see is the lack of that ecosystem, or a way to bootstrap it, because if it ran Android apps (and therefore fracture the user experience) that would not ensure developer adoption... And most people only want a "good enough" phone that lets them run apps and a few games, which further compounds the problem -- the value of Ubuntu Phone Just isn't apparent to them, which is sad.

giancarlostoro 10y ago
I think the biggest thing that could probably help the Ubuntu Phone is an approachable development environment. If the road to developing apps for a phone is short enough, that people on their weekend make apps for it, it will expand rapidly with apps. This requires great tooling, and documentation. Potentially even adoption of a programming language that either comes with a powerful SDK or is tailored from the ground up for this purpose, or forked. We've seen this type of boom with Go. Go has a LOT of out of the box functionality, and Python does too, it is what makes people stick to them once they like them in my opinion. However, tooling and documentation are key. I know Ubuntu has Ubuntu Make, but it still has a long way to go. If they can make a great development ecosystem, they can bring in a number of developers.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- simonh 10y ago
  They should be targeting OEMs and telcos as their primary customers and a first class dev environment is key to that. The reason Android AOSP is so widely available is it's free, is trivial to port to new hardware and is easy to customise. Since ORMS and telcos are the gatekeepers to anything reaching customers, appealing to them has to come first. Fail to attract them and it doesn't matter how popular you might have been with customers, because they'll never even get to see your product.

giancarlostoro 10y ago

I would love to have a Ubuntu Phone, but my carrier in the US probably doesn't support such phones yet as far as I'm aware. If they can sooner reach the multiple carriers in this side of the globe effectively (and hopefully not AT&T first, kind of sick of everyone going to them first) then that would help the ecosystem currently going on. I am not enjoying the options left. I loved Android at first because it is based on Linux, but I don't feel like I'm using Linux, I just feel like I'm using the only other option left. I like the few freedoms Android gives me at least, but it takes more effort than if I had Ubuntu installed on a computer to do anything useful on it. Amazon tried, but why would I want to stop being locked down by one tech giant just to be locked down to the next. A phone should have the essentials, nothing forcefully locked into the phone. I can't uninstall Facebook, Instagram, or Messenger from my phone without rooting. If one day they all shut down that becomes a completely useless set of applications. Years from now I should still be able to text and call though? I should be able to change the apps that do those things too either way! If the manufacturer stops supporting them for example. I love the freedom of Linux, and Android never feels like it yet. I hope Ubuntu comes to America and becomes highly available everywhere. I also hope competitors are allowed, or Distros. Would be nice to see alternative phones. I don't want to be locked down as much as I love Google, they shouldn't have total control of my phone, neither should Apple, or Canonical. At least Canonical respects that.

udp 10y ago
> I would love to have a Ubuntu Phone, but my carrier in the US probably doesn't support such phones yet as far as I'm aware. How does that work? Does the carrier have to support each new brand of phone? I don't think we have a system like that here in the UK. I have an iPhone 6 paid for with a monthly contract, but I was using a ~2002 Nokia feature phone recently while it was away for repair.
- sverige 10y ago
  Just went through this research again for the first time in five or six years. One of the most frustrating things about US carriers is that they force manufacturers to limit their offerings in this market. For example, dual SIM card phones are not offered on any phones built for the US market, since carriers make a lot of their money from financing new phones. There are also phones with three and four SIM cards made for other markets. Need two (or three or four) numbers? In the US, you have to buy two (or three or four) phones. AT&T and T-Mobile use the GSM protocol on their networks, which is the protocol used in the rest of the world. The 2G bands use different frequencies in this hemisphere than the frequencies used in Europe and Asia. The 3G and 4G and LTE bands are different yet, but the basic protocol is the same, so if the radio works, the phone works. Sprint and Verizon use a different protocol called CDMA which is incompatible with GSM. Phones designed for foreign markets do not work at all on their networks. So to summarize, barriers built using different protocols and marketing limit the ability for US consumers to treat their handset for what it is (a commodity) and help lock them in to one of two carriers. This is why Apple and Samsung can get away with charging $600+ for devices that cost a very small fraction of that to manufacture using impoverished laborers. I just bought a 2G Philips dual SIM phone made in China for the Russian market that will work on T-mobile's US 2G network. (It will not work on AT&T since they turned off their 2G network on January 1.) I plan to use two SIM cards for the two numbers I have, and to limit mobile data to a tablet for those times when I absolutely need it. Everything else (paying bills, looking for work, shopping, playing games, getting directions, etc.) will be done on a laptop or desktop. I would welcome reform of the US cell market, but I'm not holding my breath for that to happen. They simply have too much power, and most Americans are completely unaware that it could be any different or better.

Santosh83 10y ago

FOSS software running phones/tablets is currently at roughly the same place FOSS software on the PC was at the turn of the millenium, and now reports indicate that Linux on the PC/laptop is gaining more and more notice from vendors each year, something no one could've dreamnt of during the monopolistic haydays of MS. So whether or not it gains traction from telcos and the average consumer, a functioning alternative to closed ecosystems is justified by its very existence and the ever-present possibility that a combination of factors can at any moment cause it to rise to the forefront. But it can win only if it's still in the ring right?

mamon 10y ago

I would like to try Ubuntu Phone but I cannot find it anywhere. Canonical's page says that all devices are out of stock, various online stores say exactly the same thing, and all the devices that are listed as compatibile (Nexus 5 for instance) are two generations old and also hard to come by. The only option I haven't tried is buying used phone on eBay, because they usually come in pretty bad shape so I want brand new device. Please Canonical, get your shit together and release SOMETHING, pretty much any device with 4.5 inch screen 2GB RAM and 32GB flash will do.

3arn0wl 10y ago
If you'd really like to try Ubuntu, your best option for now might be to get hold of a cheap, second hand Nexus. Ubuntu are about to change the OS to 64bit Core and Snap, and there's not much on the market yet that can run it. They are going to keep supporting the current system for a while longer though.
slitaz 10y ago
You can get the tablet bq M10 now. Or you can preorder the Fair phone 2, the version with Ubuntu preinstalled.
- Paul_O_Meany_Jr 10y ago
  The Fairphone 2 doesn't come with Ubuntu preinstalled and the project to run the OS on the phone is community based and in progress. http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-fairphone-2-port-update http://www.omgubuntu.co.uk/2016/07/ubuntu-fairphone-2-port-u... https://forum.fairphone.com/t/fairphone-2-ubuntu-touch/23475 https://forum.fairphone.com/t/fairphone-2-ubuntu-touch/23475
- Fnoord 10y ago
  You can run a version of Android without Google ("Google Mobile Services") on FP2. This is called Fairphone Open OS [1]. [1] https://code.fairphone.com/ https://code.fairphone.com/
wvh 10y ago
Same with Jolla – my first gen is breaking and I can't buy a replacement running Sailfish at this moment. I like Sailfish and I'm interested in Ubuntu Phone, but clearly they seem to have some issues convincing manufacturers to release some hardware with these alternative systems. I hope maybe Fairphone and Puzzlephone could become open mobile hardware devices with at least semi-official support for multiple open operating systems because I'm not quite brave enough to start hacking mobile devices to run Linux.

vegabook 10y ago

But I can't actually buy an Ubuntu phone anymore. And I want to because I lost me aquaris E5. This is not a good situation even for the most committed and patient early adopters (like me).

slitaz 10y ago
Have a look at the Fairphone 2. It is on preorder and can get the Ubuntu veraion.

edent 10y ago

The problem is, Ubuntu is completely unsuitable for a mobile phone or tablet. I bought one last year and had to return it because it was functionally unusable - https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2016/05/the-ubuntu-tablet-a-review-of-the-aquaris-m10-ubuntu-edition/ https://shkspr.mobi/blog/2016/05/the-ubuntu-tablet-a-review-... The OS doesn't support modern features like multi-touch, many apps require a physical keyboard, it can't connect reliably to Bluetooth devices, app switching doesn't work - even icons are missing from certain apps! There's no app store to speak of, just a small collection of apps which haven't received even rudimentary testing. That's before we even get to the lack of "killer" apps like Angry Birds, Dropbox, Spotify. > Carriers are also interested in this flexibility. No, they aren't. I've just finished 10 years in European telcos - they don't care about flexibility. They care about profit margin and making sure that people don't ring call centres to complain about broken hardware. My old employer (O2) sells a bunch of Cyanogen based Android devices - because the cost is right and the services are good enough. Ubuntu isn't even close to competing with that yet. > Some they may provide themselves and some by well known providers; but by not being able to select options for those base services they have less flexibility on what they can do. This is factually incorrect. Providers (in the UK at least) are able to bundle services and apps with iPhones, Android, Windows Phone. I've worked with handset manufacturers to add DropBox, replace DropBox with something else, have apps preinstalled, remove bloatware - and everything in-between. > So that effectively makes it difficult for the carriers as well as alternate service providers (e.g. Dropbox, Spotify, etc) to compete. Again, that's not really true. Dropbox has a multi-million dollar marketing budget. If your new service can pay an operator €10 per customer - guess what - they'll push you to the front of the user's home screen. > I think that Ubuntu Phone has the fundamental DNA to win in this race. I don't. I've installed Ubuntu on my MacBooks, my laptops, my servers, and my TV's media box. It's a brilliant OS. But it doesn't work on touchscreens. It cannot meet the efficiency demands of small battery devices. It has no alternative services which even come close to what's on the market. I love Ubuntu - but I wouldn't let it near any of my phones.

soneil 10y ago
I had pretty much exactly the same experience with Ubuntu Touch (but on an Aquaris phone). All in all I found the window manager a frustrating and horrible experience. But the one "killer app" I really missed was email. There's precisely one native app, and it fails to load subfolders in imap. A "free" OS feels like a petty distinction when the only (usable) applications are wrappers for mobile sites.

hd4 10y ago

The most logical thing for Ubuntu Phone to do would be to start out with making some kind of ROM that people could sideload onto their existing Android. The people who first started out using Ubuntu were interested enough and wanted an alternative to Windows badly enough that they didn't mind installing it as a replacement. Why can't Ubuntu Phone start out as a replacement to Android? The only "problem" being that Android has not really messed up too badly yet, other than in making everything go through the Google Play Services and shutting out AOSP and leaving it stuck in 2009. And yes there is a ROM out there but it's not available on enough devices to create enough of a stir. This is the mistake Canonical is making, and they might regret leaving the job of porting to popular devices up to the 'community' (read: volunteers) instead of paying a team of developers to just get the ROM working to a point where it is a half-decent alternative to even Cyanogenmod. Microsoft made that same mistake before the iPhone and never really recovered.

Brakenshire 10y ago
I think this is relatively easy if you have the right phone. I think you can even install MultiROM through the app store, and then install Ubuntu Touch alongside your existing Android installation. https://2buntu.com/articles/1510/installing-ubuntu-touch-with-multirom/ https://2buntu.com/articles/1510/installing-ubuntu-touch-wit... You're right about the half-hearted device support, though.
dsr_ 10y ago
And they should write a porting guide, first thing. Start with setting up a dev environment and cross-compiler. Then they should do a sample port to some very easy to obtain hardware, a Chinese $100 GSM phone, and document the whole process step-by-step. If you want wide support, you need to leverage enthusiasm.
- BuuQu9hu 10y ago
  They have a porting guide here: https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/porting-new-device/ https://developer.ubuntu.com/en/phone/devices/porting-new-de... Cross-compilers have been available for a while now.

oelmekki 10y ago

The paragraph focused on carriers in this article makes me wonder : can ubuntu mobile guarantee OEM won't install any uninstallable apps as well? I only buy nexus phones precisely because I don't want the carriers and OEM stuff, they always have been a bad experience for me. I can see how "build your own bundle" is a selling point for carriers, but it's hardly one for users. That being said, I'm excited to see a true linux mobile distro. I've tried it on my nexus 7 when most apps were placeholders, can't wait to see a viable one. Any chance to have dual boot?

Brakenshire 10y ago
> The paragraph focused on carriers in this article makes me wonder : can ubuntu mobile guarantee OEM won't install any uninstallable apps as well? It looks like he's saying that Ubuntu gives carriers more flexibility to bundle in alternative apps and services, as you say it would be interesting to know whether Ubuntu will agree to carriers making those services uninstallable. My guess is Ubuntu do not have the clout to stop that, and still get sold through that channel. I would say there will always be a distinction between phones you buy directly and those bundled with contracts. The latter will always involve that kind of influence from the carriers. One compromise could be it comes locked down, but includes some non-obvious but relatively easy way to root the system, and open it up completely.
slitaz 10y ago
With the present phones, Canonical provides all the packages and the full ROM files. There is no feature yet for phones that cannot be rooted so I do not see such risk. There is a feature for Snapdragon SoCs that can enable dual-boot. For others, it is still difficult or impossible.

3arn0wl 10y ago

Actually, I think the USP for Ubuntu Phone is not the saturated smartphone market we now have, but the truly mobile computer in your pocket market that both Canonical & Micro$oft are striving to reach. It remains to be seen who'll get there first and do it better!

akjainaj 10y ago

>Another good answer is all the benefits of Free Software, but many of those are benefits the general public doesn’t yet realize they need. So if they don't agree those benefits are needed, it's because they are wrong/inexperienced/misled/stupid/...? You think people should care about privacy and "openness of the software", whatever that is (most people can't code, so they rightfully don't care about the availability of the source code of the OS or apps). What most people (including myself) care about, instead, is ease of use and reliability. You'll never catch up with the ease of use and reliability of iOS (not even Android can, and then not even Microsoft could catch up with Android), that's why Firefox OS failed and your mobile OS will fail as well.

Brakenshire 10y ago
> You think people should care about privacy and "openness of the software", whatever that is (most people can't code, so they rightfully don't care about the availability of the source code of the OS or apps). What most people (including myself) care about, instead, is ease of use and reliability. If you talk to inexperienced computer users, probably the most common complaint you will get is that software they are using is being changed underneath them, after they have got used to it. You could turn around your argument 180 degrees, and still be equally valid in saying that it the walled garden 'we will do what is best for you' attitude is actually about saying that users "don't agree those benefits are needed, because they are wrong/inexperienced/misled/stupid/...?"
- akjainaj 10y ago
  >If you talk to inexperienced computer users, probably the most common complaint you will get is that software they are using is being changed underneath them, after they have got used to it. Open source projects do that all the time too. Think of GNOME 2 -> 3, and compare it to iOS 6 -> 7. >the walled garden 'we will do what is best for you' attitude If we take Apple as an example, their attitude is "we will do what makes us sell more", which aligns with what users will want the software to do, otherwise they lose a sale. On the other hand since nobody uses Ubuntu Phone, Canonical will do whatever they want with it, knowing they'll get almost no complains. So which one serves the user better?

mtgx 10y ago

> The biggest strength and weakness of Ubuntu Phone is that it’s a device without an intrinsic set of services. If you buy an Android device you get Google Services. If you buy an iPhone you get Apple services. I think what you may get with a "popular" mainstream Ubuntu phone platform will be a lot worse - like Canonical allowing companies to install their own services/crapware, but worse than it already is for Android phones.

andrewclunn 10y ago

PCs have interchangeable components that are built around standards. So if it's easier to write for them in an abstracted way. Vendors control the hardware for their phones. They have no interest in enabling people to remove their Android flavor, with built in crapware. Open source phone OSes will come, but only after we've reduced the smart phone to a commodity and market forces have compelled standardization through economy of scale.

heheocoenev 10y ago

I own a Ubuntu phone, Aquaris E4.5, imported from Spain via a EU dropshipper. Wouldn't use it as my daily phone until it supported full disk encryption.

opless 10y ago

"What I find most interesting thing about this discussion is that it is the original reason that Google bought Android. They were concerned that with Apple controlling the smartphone market they’d be in a position to damage Google’s ability to compete in services" Google bought android in 2005. Apple release iPhone in 2007. Do what now? I'd love a truly linux-based phone. Though it's unlikely that you'll ever get "root" on a commercial offering. Mobile phone providers don't like you being able to monkey about with the phone too much.

ClassyJacket 10y ago
Rumours of Apple making a smartphone were strong for years before they actually announced one.
- opless 10y ago
  They only started working on a phone in 2005 according to the wiki page. Yes, there were rumours for years ... ever since the Newton.
  - rimantas 10y ago
    IIRC first prototypes were made in 2004 and were more iPads than iPhones
infosample 10y ago
Google bought Android to prevent a Microsoft monopoly.
BuuQu9hu 10y ago
Android phones are Linux-based and you can often get root via fastboot or some exploits.

quanticle 10y ago

The biggest strength and weakness of Ubuntu Phone is that it's a device without an intrinsic set of services. If you buy an Android device, you get Google Services. If you buy an iPhone, you get Apple services. What he's missing is that the device is pretty much useless without the services. The services are as necessary to the functionality of the device as say, filesystem drivers are on an operating system. Yes, it's possible to have an operating system without filesystem drivers, but it's not going to be very useful to your average consumer. Similarly, it's possible to have a smartphone without location services, or push notifications, but it's not going to be very useful. While these can be strengths (at least in Google's case) they are effectively a lock in to services that may or may not meet your requirements. You certainly can get Telegram or Signal for either of those, but they're never going to be as integrated as Hangouts or iMessage. This goes throughout the device including things like music and storage as well. I don't know what he means with regards to "storage" (cloud storage, perhaps?) but when it comes to messaging, I find that Telegram actually makes a better text messaging application than Hangouts. The UI is easier, it's easier to scan through archived messages, and it's faster. That's leaving aside the obvious privacy improvements that Telegram brings over Hangouts. Similarly, I find that Spotify does a better job of handling music on Android than Google Play Music. It has better integration with its desktop client, better sync, and it doesn't lose its network connection when switching from wifi to LTE. Android already has the strengths and disadvantages of Ubuntu Phone (mostly thanks to Google's incompetence). I'm not sure what Ubuntu Phone brings to the table that would make it better than Android. Right now, it appears to be an OS like Android with many fewer apps, and even more headaches when it comes to cloud services.

jasonkostempski 10y ago
If they're trying to target the same customers that buy Apple and Android for the services and all the other skin-deep beauty, I think they're going to fail for sure. Hopefully, there's enough people that just want a general purpose computer with and open source operating system that just happens to include cellular internet connection (bonuses for me would be a a hardware keyboard, is at a size that actually fits in your pocket and has a hard switch to disconnect it from the network). I would also gladly pay more, even with the inconveniences that might come with such a device. I hope they target something like that and there are enough people that want it.

LostWanderer 10y ago

I also liked the concept of Firefox basic phone.. It was interesting to have smart features in a feature phone

rsync 10y ago

We really need something like "GNU phoneutils" ... a big package of command line utilities to control and manipulate a telephone. I really, really want to do things like this: cat file | sms -send -n 4157771234 grep mom addresses | awk (field with phonenumber) | dial --nobusy --retry 3 That is to say, I want a unix phone. I want to run the phone with unix and unix commands. Certainly not all of the time, but some of the time I would like the power to manipulate dialing/texting/answering in this way. I am not aware of any utilities like this - collected in a big package or not ...

dqv 10y ago
You could try freeswitch which has some fun cli stuff. mod_portaudio lets you make and take calls from your terminal (although you have to use fs_cli, but you can alias dial to fs_cli -x"pa call $1"). There are a few sms modules as well.
atmin 10y ago
You kinda can do it on Android via Termux: https://termux.com/add-on-api.html https://termux.com/add-on-api.html
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Hrmf, 5.0 or newer. And here I was wondering if I could get some extra mileage out of my older devices...
BuuQu9hu 10y ago
Closest you can get is sending DBUS commands to oFono or FSO. Should be easy to write a command-line wrapper for those though.

Steveoz5 10y ago

Many comments same/similar to "I would like to try Ubuntu Phone but I cannot find it anywhere." Well, I got tired of waiting, so I bought a NEW Meizu Pro 5 (Flyme Edition) and installed Ubuntu. Works great. New phone, with warranty, running Ubuntu. What's more, the Pro 5 runs a Exynos 7420 (ARMv8-A) so is likely to run the Xenial based snap image when released by Canonical.

Steveoz5 10y ago

Many comments same/similar to "I would like to try Ubuntu Phone but I cannot find it anywhere." Well, I got tired of waiting, so I bought a NEW Meizu Pro 5 (Flyme Edition) and installed Ubuntu. Works great. New phone, with warranty, running Ubuntu. What's more the Pro 5 runs a Exynos 7420 (ARMv8-A) so is likely to run the Xenial based snap image when released by Canonical.

throw2016 10y ago

A interesting effort by Ubuntu that could have potentially enriched the ecosystem for users but hardware and drivers in the tightly closed Arm and Google ecosystem is a significant challenge. Or we would be able to install Linux on our devices ourselves. Its curious these devices work flawlessly with Android but cannot even boot with Linux. Or if it boots none of the functionality works. The drivers are there and they work on 'Linux' just fine but somehow they are never available on Linux. Folks here get worked up about insignificant chinese companies when this is totally in the control of Arm and Google. Its now tiring to see open source developers struggle incessantly to get information from ARM for over 5 years and the ball is kicked from ARM to the OEM both claiming the other has denied permission and this goes on. There are always promises and excuses but never any results.

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jasonvorhe 10y ago

Reading this I'm totally confused what he's talking about: On Android, Telegram is miles ahead of Hangouts & Allo in terms of UX, feature support and performance, while Google Drive feels like a completely wasted opportunity for a storage service by Google on their own platform. Hangouts even ships being disabled per default on their flagship Pixel phones. Instead of growing the amount of apps OEMs need to preinstall to get access to the Play Store, they reduce it, year by year. Even after all these years Android is still designed to be an OS where every company could offer Google-like services and integrate them like Google does. I'd be surprised if the author actually used an Android device in the last years.

sreenadh 10y ago

What we really need is a good device. A device with proper open standards so that we can install Ubuntu or Jolla or Cyanogenmod or any other future OSs. We can get some standard devices by some OEMs.