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The thing that confuses me about these scenarios is that it seems to assume too much on the part of the inmates, that they have the ability to make all these ex

The thing that confuses me about these scenarios is that it seems to assume too much on the part of the inmates, that they have the ability to make all these extremely minor character judgements and manipulate a person who holds absolute power over them to the extent that they have them enthralled. If they truly have such powers, why are they not somewhere else other than prison?

zackattack 16y ago
1) Prison guards don't have absolute power over the cons 2) The cons don't have them entirely enthralled, but as I mention in the article, severely weakened over time, and vulnerable enough to succumb to minor rules violations that the cons use as leverage against the guards - to extract major favors 3) A lot of criminals are very intelligent and if they were born in an affluent suburb in Connecticut, they would probably end up just as powerful as many businessmen/politicians. Some criminals end up working their way out of prison and end up very powerful. Look at YM/CMB as a great example of this. (Except Lil Wayne is in jail now on a gun charge because it's all tied up with his "hood" image.)
- andyjdavis 16y ago
  Also the inmates have basically an unlimited amount of time to think things over. They have all the time in the world to go back over past events and plan for the future interactions. The guard may not think twice about a particular conversation while the inmate may spend the next 24 hours going over it in their head and figuring out an angle. If they're not switched on and maybe a bit paranoid the guard may not realize that what they think is a conversation is actually a science experiment with them as the subject. Working with people who can spend every waking moment figuring out how to get into your head could be frightening.
- roel_v 16y ago
  Who is YM/CMB? Google shows a bunch of rappers, but is there actually one that calls himself "YM/CMB"? I guess that guy drank too much of the Web 2.0 naming coolaid ("Street 2.0"?)
  - zackattack 16y ago
    Young Money / Cash Money Business. Also c.f. Young Money Entertainment.
  - CWuestefeld 16y ago
    that guy drank too much of the Web 2.0 naming coolaid That would be "Horsedick.MPEG" from the movie Miss March. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_March http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_March
sliverstorm 16y ago
1: who says every inmate is doing it wholly consciously, with each step planned? 2: there are many guards and many inmates. Some inmates succeed with some guards, not all inmates with all guards.
yardie 16y ago
Prisons are full of psychopaths and sociopaths. You've probably worked amongst some of them in your life. Think of the guy that everyone hates but has managed to get himself locked into the heartbeat of the company. Sociopaths aren't out to get power through material wealth, but by exploiting character flaws. They'll find someone easily influenced, kiss ass until they have solid relationship and then exploit the shit out of it.
Vivtek 16y ago
Some of them are really, really smart people who grew up in situations that didn't allow them to get anywhere except by this kind of manipulation. And they have nothing else to do, every day, for years. I knew a guy once who had worked as a guard at a maximum-security prison in Kentucky. Their prisoners were this kind of guy - often brilliant. He said you literally couldn't leave a candy wrapper in their cell because they would make a knife of it (not joking, this was his very example, and he knew a guy who'd been cut with just such a knife) and try to escape. Even knowing they couldn't escape, they just had nothing better to do with their time. And they've got a lot of time.
- eru 16y ago
  By the way, do you know what prisoners are allowed to do with their time? I guess they are technically allowed to have books. How about computers, or even internet access? Historical anecdote: In the 19th century there was this German inventor and entrepeneur, named Ernst Werner von Siemens. He took part in a duel and was sentenced to a (mild form of) prison. He used the time there to make several inventions. And at the end he even asked for extending his sentence.
  - Vivtek 16y ago
    I think it entirely depends on the prison.

zackattack 16y ago

1) Prison guards don't have absolute power over the cons 2) The cons don't have them entirely enthralled, but as I mention in the article, severely weakened over time, and vulnerable enough to succumb to minor rules violations that the cons use as leverage against the guards - to extract major favors 3) A lot of criminals are very intelligent and if they were born in an affluent suburb in Connecticut, they would probably end up just as powerful as many businessmen/politicians. Some criminals end up working their way out of prison and end up very powerful. Look at YM/CMB as a great example of this. (Except Lil Wayne is in jail now on a gun charge because it's all tied up with his "hood" image.)

andyjdavis 16y ago
Also the inmates have basically an unlimited amount of time to think things over. They have all the time in the world to go back over past events and plan for the future interactions. The guard may not think twice about a particular conversation while the inmate may spend the next 24 hours going over it in their head and figuring out an angle. If they're not switched on and maybe a bit paranoid the guard may not realize that what they think is a conversation is actually a science experiment with them as the subject. Working with people who can spend every waking moment figuring out how to get into your head could be frightening.
roel_v 16y ago
Who is YM/CMB? Google shows a bunch of rappers, but is there actually one that calls himself "YM/CMB"? I guess that guy drank too much of the Web 2.0 naming coolaid ("Street 2.0"?)
- zackattack 16y ago
  Young Money / Cash Money Business. Also c.f. Young Money Entertainment.
- CWuestefeld 16y ago
  that guy drank too much of the Web 2.0 naming coolaid That would be "Horsedick.MPEG" from the movie Miss March. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_March http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miss_March

sliverstorm 16y ago

1: who says every inmate is doing it wholly consciously, with each step planned? 2: there are many guards and many inmates. Some inmates succeed with some guards, not all inmates with all guards.

yardie 16y ago

Prisons are full of psychopaths and sociopaths. You've probably worked amongst some of them in your life. Think of the guy that everyone hates but has managed to get himself locked into the heartbeat of the company. Sociopaths aren't out to get power through material wealth, but by exploiting character flaws. They'll find someone easily influenced, kiss ass until they have solid relationship and then exploit the shit out of it.

Vivtek 16y ago

Some of them are really, really smart people who grew up in situations that didn't allow them to get anywhere except by this kind of manipulation. And they have nothing else to do, every day, for years. I knew a guy once who had worked as a guard at a maximum-security prison in Kentucky. Their prisoners were this kind of guy - often brilliant. He said you literally couldn't leave a candy wrapper in their cell because they would make a knife of it (not joking, this was his very example, and he knew a guy who'd been cut with just such a knife) and try to escape. Even knowing they couldn't escape, they just had nothing better to do with their time. And they've got a lot of time.

eru 16y ago
By the way, do you know what prisoners are allowed to do with their time? I guess they are technically allowed to have books. How about computers, or even internet access? Historical anecdote: In the 19th century there was this German inventor and entrepeneur, named Ernst Werner von Siemens. He took part in a duel and was sentenced to a (mild form of) prison. He used the time there to make several inventions. And at the end he even asked for extending his sentence.
- Vivtek 16y ago
  I think it entirely depends on the prison.