7 ms·

Help a confused european: do you guys not have a car registration system, wherein when you sell a car the buyer has to go and register himself as the new owner

Help a confused european: do you guys not have a car registration system, wherein when you sell a car the buyer has to go and register himself as the new owner before he gets registration plates and can drive the car? How could the city not know who the owner of the car is? Over here photo tickets follow a simple rule: if it's your car, it's your responsibility to know who's driving it. When you get a ticket, you either name the driver, or you pay it yourself. But I haven't heard of anyone getting a ticket for someone else's car.

zeamaize 10y ago
Not everyone complies with registrations. Compliance is especially low amongst the poor, ethnic minorities in large cities, and the wealthy elite in California.
- briandear 10y ago
  I don't disagree, but why would a non-poor ethnic minority be less likely to follow the law?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ensignavenger 10y ago
    Or a non-ethnic minority poor... my best guess would be some cultural distrust of government?
- tunap 10y ago
  Hey, sorry to be off-topic, but your post does not have a downvote button for me. The rest do, and I do not want to downvote you, but I am curious as to the 'why not?'.
  - detaro 10y ago
    older than 24 hours, the others aren't.
    - tunap 10y ago
      I am going to chance another downvote to say: Thanks for the clarification.
paulddraper 10y ago
> buyer has to go and register himself as the new owner As you've described it, you're depending on the buyer doing the right thing.
- Anderkent 10y ago
  I didn't realise he sold the car with his old registration plates still on. That seems silly.
  - marssaxman 10y ago
    How is it silly? That's normal, in my experience; the plates transfer with the car. Do you live in a place where one must obtain new plates immediately after purchasing a car?
    - ars 10y ago
      > That's normal, in my experience; the plates transfer with the car. What? No they do not. The plates stay with the person not the car. You can transfer the plates from car to car as well. > Do you live in a place where one must obtain new plates immediately after purchasing a car? Where do you live that you don't???? Are you sure that in your state plates transfer with the car? What state is that, because I would like to look that up.
      - in_cahoots 10y ago
        That's not true in California, at least. Plates stay with the car unless they're vanity plates.
      - chillwaves 10y ago
        This is the part that confused me the most. Why wouldn't they just make the new owner get new plates? It's completely trivial.
        paulddraper 10y ago
vermontdevil 10y ago
Yes we do. But 50 states, 50 different motor vehicle bureaus. Not to mention D.C. Plus Puerto Rico etc. Some states have an excellent DMV. Others suck. It depends.
- zeamaize 10y ago
  No states have excellent DMVs (or BMVs, or IDS) some states just have worse ones than others.
  - wnevets 10y ago
    You've used the DMV in all 50 states?
  - JoBrad 10y ago
    I've had a pretty good experience with the DMV in TN. I know others who haven't, but I have.
  - vermontdevil 10y ago
    I've had a DL in 7 states so far. Yes some were good. Your mileage may vary though.
  - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
    The BMV near me has been nothing but cheerful and helpful and I've done a few transactions that are off the beaten path. Wait times are usually 0-40min and it's in a strip mall so you can do your shopping while you wait. I do live in the middle of nowhere by SV standard though.
  - hgfdhjtyd 10y ago
    Wrong. Also, in NY, there is a state DMV, 57 county DMVs, and the NYC DMV. County DMV offices are run by their respective county clerks, though they do tie into the state computer systems. Many of them are fantastic.
  - Blackthorn 10y ago
    DMV in New Hampshire is fine. It wasn't until I got to Silly Valley that I learned that what they eventually showed in Zootopia is true. Part of it is just due to population density. They need to increase the number of DMVs by about 10 to get a reasonable distribution for the population.
djsumdog 10y ago
It varies from state to state. You typically have some type of title document. When you sell your car, you sign the back with the sale value. You have to do this very carefully because if you sign the wrong part or screw something up, you have to go to the county clerk, sign an affidavit and pay for a new title that you can then sign over properly. Some states require that the title be notarized (signed and sealed in front of a notary public who verifies your identity) which can be done at a bank at transfer time. In both cases, the buyer is responsible for registering the car (at which time they'll pay sales tax on it. The seller will usually print and fill out a bill of sale. It's best to get this notarized too along with the title). Unless you fill out one of the forms mentioned in the comments, the car will still be listed as belonging to you until the buyer registers it.
alistairSH 10y ago
Yes. But, it's not uncommon (though not a good idea) to sell a car with the plates on, so the buyer doesn't have to go to the DMV before purchase.
- hgfdhjtyd 10y ago
  I think it is uncommon, if not rare. It's a terrible idea, and depending on the location and circumstances may be illegal.
stonemetal 10y ago
There are two parts to it. The seller notifies the state that they have sold the car, and the buyer has to register with the state that they bought the car. Taxes are due when the buyer registers with the state, so guess which part doesn't get done as often? If the seller forgets to send in the sell notification and the buyer flakes out on registering the only person they know to pursue is the seller. Hopefully the seller has a signed bill of sale so they can point the finger further down the ownership chain.
- alistairSH 10y ago
  All of that assume there are plates on the car. If the seller left his plates on the car, well, that was a mistake. If you sell a car private-party, you should take the plates off. It's on the buyer to ensure the car is properly tagged. Most states off short-term tags for just this reason (transporting newly purchased cars that haven't had registration updated).
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - dsfyu404ed 10y ago
    You usually need to show up in person to register a vehicle. If you intend to buy a car and drive it to a different state then you may not be able to register it in the origin state because most state stipulate that you can't register a vehicle if you do not reside there or have an address there (otherwise people in small shitty states would drive a couple hours to an adjacent state to save a few hundred on tax/registration/insurance). Registering it in the destination state would be similarly impossible without the title/bill of sale in hand and some states require an inspection prior to registration. Inspections stations need to be licensed. This means it's in some cases impossible to legally buy and drive a car bought private party because you can't register it where you buy it and you need have the car inspected before registering it where you're bringing it. Depending on the states in question the fine for invalid registration is usually much less than the cost of having the unregistered vehicle towed from A to B so many people just slap an old plate on the back and cross their fingers.
joering2 10y ago
> How could the city not know who the owner of the car is? Because frankly the city doesn't care about change of ownership. Many cities (probably most in California, and SF for sure) are totally disconnected from helping citizens. They really neither interested, nor in business of helping you out. They BELIEVE you did something wrong and that's enough. Most of the time they are right and that's enough of a fuel for a SF budget committee not to allocate budget to helping few citizens out of majority to "make it right" for them. An interesting story from an App that made it simple to fight wrong tickets. Who would have thought that SF would give you wrong ticket or that they would be in wrong generally? You not supposed to be well-informed either. At the end, they got frustrated by all people who lawfully and willingly were submitting claims via Fax and just simply... unplug their fax machine! When Fixed began faxing its submissions to SFMTA last year, the agency emailed the startup to stop using their fax machine. When Fixed pointed out that it was legal to do so, the agency simply shut off their fax. https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/12/fixed-the-app-that-fixes-your-parking-tickets-gets-blocked-in-san-francisco-oakland-l-a/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/12/fixed-the-app-that-fixes-y...
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  >Because frankly the city doesn't care about change of ownership. Many cities (probably most in California, and SF for sure) are totally disconnected from helping citizens. Eh, Boston isn't in California but from what I gather most of the populace has contracted whatever California has so it may as well be.
- hedora 10y ago
  Wow! Can we at least have an app that pays the fine using pennies?
crzwdjk 10y ago
In California, the license plates stay with the car, and as people mentioned, there's a system to notify the DMV of ownership changes. Also, when you buy a new car, of course you have to register with the DMV and they mail you the new license plates... which takes the usual 6-8 weeks or whatever. In the meantime, you just drive the car around with no license plates.
robryk 10y ago
> When you get a ticket, you either name the driver, or you pay it yourself. But I haven't heard of anyone getting a ticket for someone else's car. Or you pay a fine for not naming the driver. Which makes sense, because if you're unaware who was driving (or not willing to say), why should you be punished for speeding/running a red light, as opposed to not naming the driver.
- zeroer 10y ago
  I would imagine in the US, the fifth amendment would protect you from having to name the driver.
caf 10y ago
Presumably that simple rule has some kind of exception for when your car is stolen?

zeamaize 10y ago

Not everyone complies with registrations. Compliance is especially low amongst the poor, ethnic minorities in large cities, and the wealthy elite in California.

briandear 10y ago
I don't disagree, but why would a non-poor ethnic minority be less likely to follow the law?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ensignavenger 10y ago
  Or a non-ethnic minority poor... my best guess would be some cultural distrust of government?
tunap 10y ago
Hey, sorry to be off-topic, but your post does not have a downvote button for me. The rest do, and I do not want to downvote you, but I am curious as to the 'why not?'.
- detaro 10y ago
  older than 24 hours, the others aren't.
  - tunap 10y ago
    I am going to chance another downvote to say: Thanks for the clarification.

paulddraper 10y ago

> buyer has to go and register himself as the new owner As you've described it, you're depending on the buyer doing the right thing.

Anderkent 10y ago
I didn't realise he sold the car with his old registration plates still on. That seems silly.
- marssaxman 10y ago
  How is it silly? That's normal, in my experience; the plates transfer with the car. Do you live in a place where one must obtain new plates immediately after purchasing a car?
  - ars 10y ago
    > That's normal, in my experience; the plates transfer with the car. What? No they do not. The plates stay with the person not the car. You can transfer the plates from car to car as well. > Do you live in a place where one must obtain new plates immediately after purchasing a car? Where do you live that you don't???? Are you sure that in your state plates transfer with the car? What state is that, because I would like to look that up.
    - in_cahoots 10y ago
      That's not true in California, at least. Plates stay with the car unless they're vanity plates.
    - chillwaves 10y ago
      This is the part that confused me the most. Why wouldn't they just make the new owner get new plates? It's completely trivial.
      - paulddraper 10y ago

vermontdevil 10y ago

Yes we do. But 50 states, 50 different motor vehicle bureaus. Not to mention D.C. Plus Puerto Rico etc. Some states have an excellent DMV. Others suck. It depends.

zeamaize 10y ago
No states have excellent DMVs (or BMVs, or IDS) some states just have worse ones than others.
- wnevets 10y ago
  You've used the DMV in all 50 states?
- JoBrad 10y ago
  I've had a pretty good experience with the DMV in TN. I know others who haven't, but I have.
- vermontdevil 10y ago
  I've had a DL in 7 states so far. Yes some were good. Your mileage may vary though.
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  The BMV near me has been nothing but cheerful and helpful and I've done a few transactions that are off the beaten path. Wait times are usually 0-40min and it's in a strip mall so you can do your shopping while you wait. I do live in the middle of nowhere by SV standard though.
- hgfdhjtyd 10y ago
  Wrong. Also, in NY, there is a state DMV, 57 county DMVs, and the NYC DMV. County DMV offices are run by their respective county clerks, though they do tie into the state computer systems. Many of them are fantastic.
- Blackthorn 10y ago
  DMV in New Hampshire is fine. It wasn't until I got to Silly Valley that I learned that what they eventually showed in Zootopia is true. Part of it is just due to population density. They need to increase the number of DMVs by about 10 to get a reasonable distribution for the population.

djsumdog 10y ago

It varies from state to state. You typically have some type of title document. When you sell your car, you sign the back with the sale value. You have to do this very carefully because if you sign the wrong part or screw something up, you have to go to the county clerk, sign an affidavit and pay for a new title that you can then sign over properly. Some states require that the title be notarized (signed and sealed in front of a notary public who verifies your identity) which can be done at a bank at transfer time. In both cases, the buyer is responsible for registering the car (at which time they'll pay sales tax on it. The seller will usually print and fill out a bill of sale. It's best to get this notarized too along with the title). Unless you fill out one of the forms mentioned in the comments, the car will still be listed as belonging to you until the buyer registers it.

alistairSH 10y ago

Yes. But, it's not uncommon (though not a good idea) to sell a car with the plates on, so the buyer doesn't have to go to the DMV before purchase.

hgfdhjtyd 10y ago
I think it is uncommon, if not rare. It's a terrible idea, and depending on the location and circumstances may be illegal.

stonemetal 10y ago

There are two parts to it. The seller notifies the state that they have sold the car, and the buyer has to register with the state that they bought the car. Taxes are due when the buyer registers with the state, so guess which part doesn't get done as often? If the seller forgets to send in the sell notification and the buyer flakes out on registering the only person they know to pursue is the seller. Hopefully the seller has a signed bill of sale so they can point the finger further down the ownership chain.

alistairSH 10y ago
All of that assume there are plates on the car. If the seller left his plates on the car, well, that was a mistake. If you sell a car private-party, you should take the plates off. It's on the buyer to ensure the car is properly tagged. Most states off short-term tags for just this reason (transporting newly purchased cars that haven't had registration updated).
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- dsfyu404ed 10y ago
  You usually need to show up in person to register a vehicle. If you intend to buy a car and drive it to a different state then you may not be able to register it in the origin state because most state stipulate that you can't register a vehicle if you do not reside there or have an address there (otherwise people in small shitty states would drive a couple hours to an adjacent state to save a few hundred on tax/registration/insurance). Registering it in the destination state would be similarly impossible without the title/bill of sale in hand and some states require an inspection prior to registration. Inspections stations need to be licensed. This means it's in some cases impossible to legally buy and drive a car bought private party because you can't register it where you buy it and you need have the car inspected before registering it where you're bringing it. Depending on the states in question the fine for invalid registration is usually much less than the cost of having the unregistered vehicle towed from A to B so many people just slap an old plate on the back and cross their fingers.

joering2 10y ago

> How could the city not know who the owner of the car is? Because frankly the city doesn't care about change of ownership. Many cities (probably most in California, and SF for sure) are totally disconnected from helping citizens. They really neither interested, nor in business of helping you out. They BELIEVE you did something wrong and that's enough. Most of the time they are right and that's enough of a fuel for a SF budget committee not to allocate budget to helping few citizens out of majority to "make it right" for them. An interesting story from an App that made it simple to fight wrong tickets. Who would have thought that SF would give you wrong ticket or that they would be in wrong generally? You not supposed to be well-informed either. At the end, they got frustrated by all people who lawfully and willingly were submitting claims via Fax and just simply... unplug their fax machine! When Fixed began faxing its submissions to SFMTA last year, the agency emailed the startup to stop using their fax machine. When Fixed pointed out that it was legal to do so, the agency simply shut off their fax. https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/12/fixed-the-app-that-fixes-your-parking-tickets-gets-blocked-in-san-francisco-oakland-l-a/ https://techcrunch.com/2015/10/12/fixed-the-app-that-fixes-y...

dsfyu404ed 10y ago
>Because frankly the city doesn't care about change of ownership. Many cities (probably most in California, and SF for sure) are totally disconnected from helping citizens. Eh, Boston isn't in California but from what I gather most of the populace has contracted whatever California has so it may as well be.
hedora 10y ago
Wow! Can we at least have an app that pays the fine using pennies?

crzwdjk 10y ago

In California, the license plates stay with the car, and as people mentioned, there's a system to notify the DMV of ownership changes. Also, when you buy a new car, of course you have to register with the DMV and they mail you the new license plates... which takes the usual 6-8 weeks or whatever. In the meantime, you just drive the car around with no license plates.

robryk 10y ago

> When you get a ticket, you either name the driver, or you pay it yourself. But I haven't heard of anyone getting a ticket for someone else's car. Or you pay a fine for not naming the driver. Which makes sense, because if you're unaware who was driving (or not willing to say), why should you be punished for speeding/running a red light, as opposed to not naming the driver.

zeroer 10y ago
I would imagine in the US, the fifth amendment would protect you from having to name the driver.

caf 10y ago

Presumably that simple rule has some kind of exception for when your car is stolen?