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This is complete and utter nonsense. First of all, plenty of native speakers of, say, Cantonese and other regional languages of Chinese, learn Mandarin using pi
by natch 10y ago
This is complete and utter nonsense. First of all, plenty of native speakers of, say, Cantonese and other regional languages of Chinese, learn Mandarin using pinyin, and they do just fine.
Second, as a non-native speaker, the advantages of not having to stumble over zhuyin and its problems hugely outweigh any advantage it might be wrongly thought to have. And the benefits continue well past the learning stage.
The /zhun/ example isn't even true. That sound is sometimes broken down for students as multiple sounds, not syllables, for pedagogical purposes when the teachers are trying to get through to a student. That's the case with either pinyin or zhuyin. They explain it as multiple component sounds (not syllables) because the underlying whacky Chinese phonetic theory says it is made up of multiple sounds. (By the way this theory takes about 10 seconds to learn, so the fact that sounds can be broken down into smaller parts is not some mind-boggling obstacle.) If you were taught that it has two syllables, you may want to consider the possibility that your teacher is fuzzy on the meaning of the English word "syllable."
If teachers are using zhuyin, they also break the sounds down to justify or explain how zhuyin works, since zhuyin is so oddly counterintuitive it needs extra explanation to help ease the cognitive burden of using it (which could be the reason it was reformed and mostly dumped decades ago in mainland China to be replaced by pinyin).
Zhuyin does survive in Taiwan, where they keep it around for political reasons. Accepting a superior mainland system would be a linguistic defeat, and would damage their pride, so they cling to an archaic system. They don't want to admit this outright, so they come up with all sorts of reasons to keep it, and they end up not learning pinyin well themselves, so with that handicap they then try to convince naive foreign students that zhuyin is good.
Don't fall for it if you like, let's see... touch typing, reading signs that are written in pinyin, being able to write down the sounds of Characters you haven't learned yet and have them readable by the average Chinese person, and focusing your time and efforts in the right places.
A better argument on your side of the issue would be to say that pinyin is bad because the 'z' and 'h' and 'u' and 'n' are four separate symbols, but zhun is one syllable, so it's (you could say) confusing to the mind (it's not). But that's simply ridiculous. Users of phonetic languages, as all of us are, are perfectly accustomed to seeing multiple sounds and syllables for that matter represented by a number of symbols that does not necessarily correspond to the number of letters.
Mostly the great thing about pinyin is it just does its job transparently without being a distraction. It becomes invisible almost, because since the letters are familiar and the sounds are already readable right off the bat, I can focus on the language and learning words and sounds correctly, instead of having an extra layer in between me and the language.
Pinyin has served me well as a learner, and the results are hard to argue with. I didn't start learning until my 20s, and now pass as a native speaker over the phone. So... don't listen to that guy. Pinyin is great.
- jason_slack 10y agoDon't fall for it if you like, let's see... touch typing, reading signs that are written in pinyin, being able to write down the sounds of Characters you haven't learned yet and have them readable by the average Chinese person, and focusing your time and efforts in the right places. It is nice to hear you say this. I practice characters and stroke-order an hour a day. I also read for about an hour each day in some kind of reader or book. My other classmates are really surprised that I hand write every assignment instead of just using a digital input method and have it write the characters for me. But, I think this is why I read and understand a lot faster. I am trying something new, since January 1. I am trying to learn 30 new characters a week. So far this is proving a bit hard. I need to know the pinyin, pronunciation, meaning, stroke-order and how I might use this character. Perhaps 30 is to many. I'll keep trying.
- FabHK 10y agoNot to discourage you, just to create realistic expectations: I'd be very surprised if you can learn and retain 1500 characters in a year with an hour a day, let alone 4500 characters (basically all you need) in 3 years with an hour a day, unless you're blessed with an excellent memory. I suggest to temper your expectations, or budget more time.
- jason_slack 10y agosorry, I meant an hour a day just on writing characters for practice. I also spend 1 hour in class 3 times a week and time doing the homework and time trying to read short stories, looking up characters that I don't know. My memory for language is pretty good, however like you said I may need more time yet still.
- xiaoma 10y agoI have learned pinyin and zhuyin both, but found zhuyin to be the "superior" system. In pinyin the two vowel sounds ㄜ and ㄝ are written as "e", and both ㄨ(sometimes) and ㄩ are written as "u". Furthermore, typing is faster in zhuyin—the longest syllable takes 3 keystrokes instead of 5. And on top of that, learning zhuyin helped my phonics since it forced me away from using English sounds as a starting point. Another small benefit was that when reading children's books with zhuyin, I generally only looked at it when needed, whereas with pinyin, my eyes would be drawn to the familiar roman characters even when I didn't need them to read a character. Despite my experience, I still believe claims that either pinyin or zhuyin is "superior" are pretty subjective. Taiwan has undeniably done better than the mainland in terms of literacy and computer literacy... but it's also had the benefit of a superior educational system and more open, wealthier society. At least for natives, either system is fine. Most foreigners could probably gain something from learning both (and IPA too, for that matter).