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Libraries tend towards standardisation regardless of whether they're being curated by the language designers. Python is actually a good example of this. Look a

Libraries tend towards standardisation regardless of whether they're being curated by the language designers. Python is actually a good example of this. Look at the library ecosystem built up around scientific computing. None of that is in the standard library, yet there is a common set of packages being used.

srssays 10y ago
Of course. But these projects exist in addition to a rich standard library. C++ takes the approach mentioned of having a rich standard library (Boost) that is a separate project from the core language. It (IMO) does not work very well. Many C++ programmers don't use Boost and generic C++ libraries are unable to use Boost as a dependency.
- Aeolos 10y ago
  > Many C++ programmers don't use Boost and generic C++ libraries are unable to use Boost as a dependency. That is because a boost installation litters your hard drive with several hundred thousand tiny files. I can't in good conscience require end-users to install that monster to compile my 10Kloc project.
- oblio 10y ago
  Yeah, but C++ doesn't really have a good, cross platform package manager. In Java land, for example, the lingua franca is Maven (even across different build systems). As a result many libraries are close to de facto standards because any Java dev can easily get those libraries, regardless of being on Win, Mac, random Linux distributions, etc.
camus2 10y ago
Scientific libraries are a complex problem, writing yet another web framework isn't. Furthermore most sci/num libs are heavily linked to C/C++ and FORTRAN code, where most of the work is done.
- ZenoArrow 10y ago
  Web frameworks are rarely part of standard libraries. The closest I can think of is ASP.NET for C#.
  - camus2 10y ago
    Go has a http server, so does python and javascript.
    - ZenoArrow 10y ago
      So a http server is a web framework now? Okay, let's go along with this. Node.js is popular, but it's not 'standard'. It's not part of any ECMAScript standard libraries, which would be the requirement if it was to be standard. I don't know the situation with Go that well, so if it has a http library in the standard I'll take your word for it, but there do seem to be some popular non-standard http servers like Caddy. As for Python, this is probably an example of where the impact of standards is not that great. How often is the standard http server used compared to popular third party alternatives? Are there any web apps you know of that are using the standard http server in production?

srssays 10y ago

Of course. But these projects exist in addition to a rich standard library. C++ takes the approach mentioned of having a rich standard library (Boost) that is a separate project from the core language. It (IMO) does not work very well. Many C++ programmers don't use Boost and generic C++ libraries are unable to use Boost as a dependency.

Aeolos 10y ago
> Many C++ programmers don't use Boost and generic C++ libraries are unable to use Boost as a dependency. That is because a boost installation litters your hard drive with several hundred thousand tiny files. I can't in good conscience require end-users to install that monster to compile my 10Kloc project.
oblio 10y ago
Yeah, but C++ doesn't really have a good, cross platform package manager. In Java land, for example, the lingua franca is Maven (even across different build systems). As a result many libraries are close to de facto standards because any Java dev can easily get those libraries, regardless of being on Win, Mac, random Linux distributions, etc.

camus2 10y ago

Scientific libraries are a complex problem, writing yet another web framework isn't. Furthermore most sci/num libs are heavily linked to C/C++ and FORTRAN code, where most of the work is done.

ZenoArrow 10y ago
Web frameworks are rarely part of standard libraries. The closest I can think of is ASP.NET for C#.
- camus2 10y ago
  Go has a http server, so does python and javascript.
  - ZenoArrow 10y ago
    So a http server is a web framework now? Okay, let's go along with this. Node.js is popular, but it's not 'standard'. It's not part of any ECMAScript standard libraries, which would be the requirement if it was to be standard. I don't know the situation with Go that well, so if it has a http library in the standard I'll take your word for it, but there do seem to be some popular non-standard http servers like Caddy. As for Python, this is probably an example of where the impact of standards is not that great. How often is the standard http server used compared to popular third party alternatives? Are there any web apps you know of that are using the standard http server in production?