3 ms·

> I was with the author until … It seems excessive to dismiss the whole article just because you disagree on this side-note.

czep 10y ago
Point taken. Mine is definitely a reactionary tangent that I hope not to undermine the very important point of the article. I agree that especially in Montgomery, the traffic camera enforcement is overreaching. My response was more to higlight the dangers of making speeding socially acceptable.
- msandford 10y ago
  It already is, and trying to pretend that it isn't is a fool's errand. If enforcement gets too strict there might be a serious outcry instead of a silent taxpayer like there is now. Remember, it's all of us together that agree what the laws are. A huge majority of people speed at least in some places. That means that it's socially acceptable, to some degree. It will be very tough to put the genie back in the bottle.
  - czep 10y ago
    I may be a fool, but will fight anyway... It's not impossible to change these kinds of social mores. A generation ago, no self-respecting red-blooded American male would wear a seatbelt, I mean that's just not manly! But now we don't see that machismo attitude as much and even those with extra strong y-chromosomes don't mind wearing seatbelts. I think given the right messaging it can be similarly possible to reduce the socially acceptable attitude about speeding. My dad grew up in an era where if your car didn't have 8 cylinders and 400+ HP then it wasn't a car. But also twice as many people died in car accidents despite there now being more drivers. Much of that is due to improvements in car safety (and regulations that require safety features), but it's also due to changing social attitudes about what a car means to us. It used to be a symbol of our freedom, now that mystique is not so much around and it's really just a method of transportation. I'm the guy who will tell a friend that he's going too fast or following too close when I'm riding shotgun (actually I tell my wife this too!) And yes I am often disparagingly called a "Boy Scout" in reply, but dammit, I'm going to keep doing it because aggressive driving is needless and dangerous.
    - msandford 10y ago
      I think the mores change more because young people grow up doing something a certain way and hey presto, that's just how the world is now. Not because extremely motivated individuals like yourself manage to browbeat, shame, mock, etc people into behaving differently. Because the odds that you're going to convince someone against their will to change their mind rapidly approach zero as your desire becomes anything greater than zero. That people around you put up with your proselytizing and "backseat" driving and criticism is more a testament to their patience than evidence that your method works, at least in my opinion. EDIT: Further, I've found it far more effective to apologize for my particular paranoia (whatever it is) that most people don't share and ask them to please respect it temporarily. You do two great things, first you acknowledge that the currently accepted standard is what it is and you recognize that you're asking something of people, and then you give them the option to do whatever they feel is right. You trust them. More often than not it works, since most adults are in fact, adult. People might roll their eyes and "comply" with your vociferous quasi-demands but odds are good that if they change their behavior it's not because you convinced them to believe a different thing. But rather you've convinced them that you're absolutely willing to make a big deal out of something every time and so to avoid getting lectured -- yet again -- it's easier to just pretend to be convinced while you're around.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - alphabettsy 10y ago
    Distracted driving is far more of a problem in my opinion. Not to mention, rarely have I seen an accident caused by speed, though speeding can make the outcome much worse and avoidance more difficult.

czep 10y ago

Point taken. Mine is definitely a reactionary tangent that I hope not to undermine the very important point of the article. I agree that especially in Montgomery, the traffic camera enforcement is overreaching. My response was more to higlight the dangers of making speeding socially acceptable.

msandford 10y ago
It already is, and trying to pretend that it isn't is a fool's errand. If enforcement gets too strict there might be a serious outcry instead of a silent taxpayer like there is now. Remember, it's all of us together that agree what the laws are. A huge majority of people speed at least in some places. That means that it's socially acceptable, to some degree. It will be very tough to put the genie back in the bottle.
- czep 10y ago
  I may be a fool, but will fight anyway... It's not impossible to change these kinds of social mores. A generation ago, no self-respecting red-blooded American male would wear a seatbelt, I mean that's just not manly! But now we don't see that machismo attitude as much and even those with extra strong y-chromosomes don't mind wearing seatbelts. I think given the right messaging it can be similarly possible to reduce the socially acceptable attitude about speeding. My dad grew up in an era where if your car didn't have 8 cylinders and 400+ HP then it wasn't a car. But also twice as many people died in car accidents despite there now being more drivers. Much of that is due to improvements in car safety (and regulations that require safety features), but it's also due to changing social attitudes about what a car means to us. It used to be a symbol of our freedom, now that mystique is not so much around and it's really just a method of transportation. I'm the guy who will tell a friend that he's going too fast or following too close when I'm riding shotgun (actually I tell my wife this too!) And yes I am often disparagingly called a "Boy Scout" in reply, but dammit, I'm going to keep doing it because aggressive driving is needless and dangerous.
  - msandford 10y ago
    I think the mores change more because young people grow up doing something a certain way and hey presto, that's just how the world is now. Not because extremely motivated individuals like yourself manage to browbeat, shame, mock, etc people into behaving differently. Because the odds that you're going to convince someone against their will to change their mind rapidly approach zero as your desire becomes anything greater than zero. That people around you put up with your proselytizing and "backseat" driving and criticism is more a testament to their patience than evidence that your method works, at least in my opinion. EDIT: Further, I've found it far more effective to apologize for my particular paranoia (whatever it is) that most people don't share and ask them to please respect it temporarily. You do two great things, first you acknowledge that the currently accepted standard is what it is and you recognize that you're asking something of people, and then you give them the option to do whatever they feel is right. You trust them. More often than not it works, since most adults are in fact, adult. People might roll their eyes and "comply" with your vociferous quasi-demands but odds are good that if they change their behavior it's not because you convinced them to believe a different thing. But rather you've convinced them that you're absolutely willing to make a big deal out of something every time and so to avoid getting lectured -- yet again -- it's easier to just pretend to be convinced while you're around.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- alphabettsy 10y ago
  Distracted driving is far more of a problem in my opinion. Not to mention, rarely have I seen an accident caused by speed, though speeding can make the outcome much worse and avoidance more difficult.