5 ms·

Your scenario seems a bit off. I imagine that if your kids did something stupid they should admit it - or they lose access to the car, period. 'A year old' cas

Your scenario seems a bit off. I imagine that if your kids did something stupid they should admit it - or they lose access to the car, period. 'A year old' case seems unlikely as well. I don't know about the UK laws, but over here most (all?) traffic violations expire after 3 month. There's no way to receive questions about a speeding ticket in the distant past..

gambiting 10y ago
Ok, if the "year ago" scenario is far fetched, then I'm not even going to pretend I can remember when I was on this day a month ago,much less where my car was and who was driving it. Like I said, I am not required by law to keep a record of every single person using my car with the times they used it, so how can the law require me to produce said information? If me + 4 other people are insured on a vehicle, that means that possibly, it could be one out of 5 people driving it on a given day. I have no idea which one it was. What then?
- darklajid 10y ago
  I can only state what the law requires here, in DE. It requires you to know that (but admittedly you're usually going to get a picture with the first request for information, so it's mostly a matter of "Hey Joe, you've got a new mugshot!" and passing it to the right one of five) and has ways to "motivate" you if you fail this in a harsh case or repeatedly. Which is fair in my book: You own the car, you are responsible for it. You're not on the hook for offenses that you didn't cause. But you were careless with your car if nobody steps forward after an incident.
cdash 10y ago
Are you suggesting collective punishment? How do you know who to revoke access to the car if they don't admit it? Also how do they if they actually were the one that was speeding if more than one used the car on the same road.
- darklajid 10y ago
  Uhm. Yes. If I give access to 2.x tons of steel and someone abuses that, I'll revoke those privileges. Collective punishment? You make it sound like Full Metal Jacket. I'd call it responsible behavior, protecting the person involved (unfit for driving if unable to admit errors) and myself (responsible for that heavy machine and the one whose trust was abused). Obviously that doesn't apply to a random parking ticket or even a minor (slap on the wrist) speeding ticket. But accidents, running red lights, sever speeding? See above. Admit it or gtfo. I really, really fail to see the reason for artificial "4 kids have access, they took turn driving and it was a year ago. What can these poor souls do?" arguments.
  - gambiting 10y ago
    What is so hard about getting this, I really don't understand?? Wife takes car in the evening to do some shopping. She comes back, daughter takes the car to see some friends. They both drove on the same road. Month later, you get a letter saying that your car has been photographed doing 5mph over the limit on that day. The photo has a time stamp, but there's really no way to tell who was driving at that time, it could have been either your daughter or your wife. What do you do? Do you pay the fine, knowing fully well that it wasn't you driving? Or do you tell your wife or daughter to take the points? At the same time, you are aware that naming the wrong person is actually a criminal offence, and since you are not 100% certain who was driving, how can you name anyone?? Why shouldn't you demand more evidence from the police? Why shouldn't you tell the police that you simply don't know and have no way of knowing who was using the car at the time? How can the police ticket anybody in this case, since they don't know who was driving? I really, really fail to see why is it so hard to understand this. Actually, I bet this happens all the time, but people prefer to just pay the fine and be done with it, instead of fighting for their rights.
    - pkaye 10y ago
      The red light cameras here now started adding a photo of the driver side window to clarify this concern.
    - 10y ago

gambiting 10y ago

Ok, if the "year ago" scenario is far fetched, then I'm not even going to pretend I can remember when I was on this day a month ago,much less where my car was and who was driving it. Like I said, I am not required by law to keep a record of every single person using my car with the times they used it, so how can the law require me to produce said information? If me + 4 other people are insured on a vehicle, that means that possibly, it could be one out of 5 people driving it on a given day. I have no idea which one it was. What then?

darklajid 10y ago
I can only state what the law requires here, in DE. It requires you to know that (but admittedly you're usually going to get a picture with the first request for information, so it's mostly a matter of "Hey Joe, you've got a new mugshot!" and passing it to the right one of five) and has ways to "motivate" you if you fail this in a harsh case or repeatedly. Which is fair in my book: You own the car, you are responsible for it. You're not on the hook for offenses that you didn't cause. But you were careless with your car if nobody steps forward after an incident.

cdash 10y ago

Are you suggesting collective punishment? How do you know who to revoke access to the car if they don't admit it? Also how do they if they actually were the one that was speeding if more than one used the car on the same road.

darklajid 10y ago
Uhm. Yes. If I give access to 2.x tons of steel and someone abuses that, I'll revoke those privileges. Collective punishment? You make it sound like Full Metal Jacket. I'd call it responsible behavior, protecting the person involved (unfit for driving if unable to admit errors) and myself (responsible for that heavy machine and the one whose trust was abused). Obviously that doesn't apply to a random parking ticket or even a minor (slap on the wrist) speeding ticket. But accidents, running red lights, sever speeding? See above. Admit it or gtfo. I really, really fail to see the reason for artificial "4 kids have access, they took turn driving and it was a year ago. What can these poor souls do?" arguments.
- gambiting 10y ago
  What is so hard about getting this, I really don't understand?? Wife takes car in the evening to do some shopping. She comes back, daughter takes the car to see some friends. They both drove on the same road. Month later, you get a letter saying that your car has been photographed doing 5mph over the limit on that day. The photo has a time stamp, but there's really no way to tell who was driving at that time, it could have been either your daughter or your wife. What do you do? Do you pay the fine, knowing fully well that it wasn't you driving? Or do you tell your wife or daughter to take the points? At the same time, you are aware that naming the wrong person is actually a criminal offence, and since you are not 100% certain who was driving, how can you name anyone?? Why shouldn't you demand more evidence from the police? Why shouldn't you tell the police that you simply don't know and have no way of knowing who was using the car at the time? How can the police ticket anybody in this case, since they don't know who was driving? I really, really fail to see why is it so hard to understand this. Actually, I bet this happens all the time, but people prefer to just pay the fine and be done with it, instead of fighting for their rights.
  - pkaye 10y ago
    The red light cameras here now started adding a photo of the driver side window to clarify this concern.
  - 10y ago