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>> those effects are so large that Starbucks habits are basically noise in comparison Right, because spending $1500-2000/year on Starbucks and another $2000-$4

>> those effects are so large that Starbucks habits are basically noise in comparison Right, because spending $1500-2000/year on Starbucks and another $2000-$4000+/year on McDonald's and other takeout for 2-3 meals a day is "noise". Consumerism is a very real thing today. There are lower middle class people who blow $30-50 a day on Starbucks, energy drinks, going out for lunch, and ordering pizza for dinner. Throw in alcohol, cigarettes, and/or weed. You can talk about wages and the price of a home all you want. Nobody 20-40 years ago threw 30-60%+ of their net pay away on daily impulse/routine purchases. Now it's extremely common. For the pool of people who work 40+ hours a week, while not spending money on any of the stupid things listed above, who still find it hard to make ends meet - those are the people I sympathize with. However, even many people who claim to be wise with their spending like to think that their $7/day Starbucks is just a "small indulgence". $7/day * 5 work days a week * 50 weeks a year = $1750/year. Make it $9-10 dollars a day, for $2500/year, to add a muffin to your morning coffee.

bradleyprice 10y ago
I completely agree here. I genuinely feel bad for those who do work hard and try their best. But that is not the case for most of the people I personally know. I really get tired of hearing people complain about low wages and being broke, but aren't willing on doing anything about it. Ranting on Facebook from their $700 - $800 Iphone while drinking a $5 coffee. I've worked really hard for everything I have. Late nights on my own, studying to better myself. Missing opportunities to hang out with friends, concerts, etc. But, at the end of the day, I chose to focus on my skills, knowledge, and career. So, when I see these same people complaining, I feel like they are degrading the time I spent and luxuries I gave up to get to where I am.
- developer2 10y ago
  I forgot about the phone. My sister and her husband fell for that trap. They went further into debt and locked themselves into an expensive family plan for 3 years for their new iPhones. We live in a really odd time. The concept of money is abstracted away in virtual credit cards - at amounts our parents never had access to. We buy computers and cell phones - things our parents never had. The very idea of spending that kind of money for what you get in return would have been entirely inconceivable for their generation. Today, these things are considered as necessary essentials rather than luxuries. Good on you for your hard work. I can attest to the fact that it is extremely difficult to ignore conventional modern consumerism. It took me a suicidal "early life crisis" 4 years ago - at the age of 27 - to "get it". I went from being severely in debt (no student loans, just a voluntarily repossessed car and maxed out credit cards), to responsibly paying off every penny. For the first time in my life, I actually have a savings account with some money put away. My spending habits are still not ideal, but I'm doing far better now than I ever did before I hit bottom.
m0llusk 10y ago
Putting anecdata in spreadsheet form doesn't fix the problem. If you look at spending data people are putting less into things like food and clothing and transportation than ever before in part because housing and medical costs are out of control. That isn't some made up feel good story pulled out of the air, it is solid verifiable data from government agencies that collect this data as part of tracking people and transaction for tax collection and other reasons.

bradleyprice 10y ago

I completely agree here. I genuinely feel bad for those who do work hard and try their best. But that is not the case for most of the people I personally know. I really get tired of hearing people complain about low wages and being broke, but aren't willing on doing anything about it. Ranting on Facebook from their $700 - $800 Iphone while drinking a $5 coffee. I've worked really hard for everything I have. Late nights on my own, studying to better myself. Missing opportunities to hang out with friends, concerts, etc. But, at the end of the day, I chose to focus on my skills, knowledge, and career. So, when I see these same people complaining, I feel like they are degrading the time I spent and luxuries I gave up to get to where I am.

developer2 10y ago
I forgot about the phone. My sister and her husband fell for that trap. They went further into debt and locked themselves into an expensive family plan for 3 years for their new iPhones. We live in a really odd time. The concept of money is abstracted away in virtual credit cards - at amounts our parents never had access to. We buy computers and cell phones - things our parents never had. The very idea of spending that kind of money for what you get in return would have been entirely inconceivable for their generation. Today, these things are considered as necessary essentials rather than luxuries. Good on you for your hard work. I can attest to the fact that it is extremely difficult to ignore conventional modern consumerism. It took me a suicidal "early life crisis" 4 years ago - at the age of 27 - to "get it". I went from being severely in debt (no student loans, just a voluntarily repossessed car and maxed out credit cards), to responsibly paying off every penny. For the first time in my life, I actually have a savings account with some money put away. My spending habits are still not ideal, but I'm doing far better now than I ever did before I hit bottom.

m0llusk 10y ago

Putting anecdata in spreadsheet form doesn't fix the problem. If you look at spending data people are putting less into things like food and clothing and transportation than ever before in part because housing and medical costs are out of control. That isn't some made up feel good story pulled out of the air, it is solid verifiable data from government agencies that collect this data as part of tracking people and transaction for tax collection and other reasons.