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> I also think this isn't so much "women aren't good at negotiating for themselves" as "women who negotiate for themselves aggressively and are conflict-seeking

> I also think this isn't so much "women aren't good at negotiating for themselves" as "women who negotiate for themselves aggressively and are conflict-seeking are penalized socially Are they? When I negotiate on pay it is with my manager and maybe someone from HR. How does this translate into social penalty? Do you have studies which show women who aggressively negotiate salary and change jobs at a similar frequency to men typically earn less than women who don't? Or have a worse social environment than men? I have a feeling you are extrapolating based on very limited studies.

vmarsy 10y ago
I don't think that's the parent point. One of the main ingredients of a successful negotiation is to be likeable. Men can be likeable and aggressive, leading to better results than a likable but non agressive man. Women on the other hand, have more difficulties being aggressive while remaining likeable. If they act agressively they get labeled as "bossy", a term that society rarely if not never use on men. Since remaining likable is more important than being aggressive for the long term, women have a harder time getting big raises. That's the social penalty I think the parent refers to.
- sheepmullet 10y ago
  Looking at a negotiation in isolation doesn't translate well to the real world. You don't need to be an aggressive person to be aggressive in salary negotiations. Being aggressive once or twice a year in salary negotiations with your manager is not going to land you a reputation as bossy. Edit: or are you saying the parent was suggesting that being aggressive in the workplace itself is the best/only way of getting ahead?
- user5994461 10y ago
  > One of the main ingredients of a successful negotiation is to be likeable. LOL. The only ingredient of a successful negotiation is leverage. You don't need and you shouldn't use anything else.

vmarsy 10y ago

I don't think that's the parent point. One of the main ingredients of a successful negotiation is to be likeable. Men can be likeable and aggressive, leading to better results than a likable but non agressive man. Women on the other hand, have more difficulties being aggressive while remaining likeable. If they act agressively they get labeled as "bossy", a term that society rarely if not never use on men. Since remaining likable is more important than being aggressive for the long term, women have a harder time getting big raises. That's the social penalty I think the parent refers to.

sheepmullet 10y ago
Looking at a negotiation in isolation doesn't translate well to the real world. You don't need to be an aggressive person to be aggressive in salary negotiations. Being aggressive once or twice a year in salary negotiations with your manager is not going to land you a reputation as bossy. Edit: or are you saying the parent was suggesting that being aggressive in the workplace itself is the best/only way of getting ahead?
user5994461 10y ago
> One of the main ingredients of a successful negotiation is to be likeable. LOL. The only ingredient of a successful negotiation is leverage. You don't need and you shouldn't use anything else.