4 ms·

You see the lack of honesty on both sides of the aisle. You're right in that Republicans don't just come out and admit that they believe that healthcare is not

by crusso 10y ago

You see the lack of honesty on both sides of the aisle. You're right in that Republicans don't just come out and admit that they believe that healthcare is not a right and that people should have to deal with their own health issues. Democrats don't just come out and admit that they want a wealth redistribution program that they can use to show voters how compassionate they are with other people's money. They're politicians. They just aren't honest and voters aren't perceptive or concerned enough to call them on it.

majormajor 10y ago
> Democrats don't just come out and admit that they want a wealth redistribution program that they can use to show voters how compassionate they are with other people's money. I want a wealth distribution program that means that thanks to a genetic condition I had no role in acquiring (if you're "doing a good job taking care of yourself" and never get cancer or some other nasty expensive disease, why don't you count your fucking blessings that you're healthy instead of bitching about having to subsidize others) means that I don't get a death sentence if I ever am sick enough to lose my job for long enough to lose coverage and get fucked over in the future on preexisting condition exclusions. Or fucked over due to lifetime benefit caps. And I want one that protects other people in similar situations too. So maybe not everyone's motivations are as cynical as you make them out to be.
- cderwin 10y ago
  You might want a redistribution program, just like I don't want healthcare to be a right, but none of that changes that no politician will speak about their support for some healthcare policy in those terms. It would be electoral suicide if they're from a competitive district.
ubernostrum 10y ago
I want a wealth redistribution program as redress for past injustices. Current concentrations of wealth and property are the result of force and fraud, and I do not see how anyone should support preserving those distributions, let alone enshrining their preservation as a moral imperative.
sanderjd 10y ago
Personally, I thought the ACA was a very honest plan. The individual mandate is a very clear statement of: healthy people must get insurance so that we can offset the cost of requiring that sick people can get insurance. I never had any illusions that, as a healthy young person, this would do anything besides increase medical costs (including insurance premiums) for me, as a trade-off against the possibility that I may one day be one of the older and/or sick people that it would benefit. I hoped it would decrease costs because we would no longer need to subsidize the uninsured by making up for care providers' lost revenue, but I didn't think that would (especially in the short term) be anything besides shifting that subsidy from being included in the cost of care to being included in premiums and federal taxes. I was pretty sure it was going to make things more expensive for me, and I don't think it was sold any differently than that. I was not in favor of it, largely because I didn't think it would survive politically long enough for me to switch from the "loses" to the "benefits" category. We're sort of seeing that now, except that I'm actually sort of optimistic that its 6-year (or so) survival has enshrined it or something like it. I believe a repeal-without-replace plan will be completely disastrous for the incoming government and that whatever government is next will have popular support to backtrack, and that a repeal-and-replace plan will end up settling on something very similar, maybe even with some free-market-based improvements!

by crusso 10y ago

majormajor 10y ago

> Democrats don't just come out and admit that they want a wealth redistribution program that they can use to show voters how compassionate they are with other people's money. I want a wealth distribution program that means that thanks to a genetic condition I had no role in acquiring (if you're "doing a good job taking care of yourself" and never get cancer or some other nasty expensive disease, why don't you count your fucking blessings that you're healthy instead of bitching about having to subsidize others) means that I don't get a death sentence if I ever am sick enough to lose my job for long enough to lose coverage and get fucked over in the future on preexisting condition exclusions. Or fucked over due to lifetime benefit caps. And I want one that protects other people in similar situations too. So maybe not everyone's motivations are as cynical as you make them out to be.

cderwin 10y ago
You might want a redistribution program, just like I don't want healthcare to be a right, but none of that changes that no politician will speak about their support for some healthcare policy in those terms. It would be electoral suicide if they're from a competitive district.

ubernostrum 10y ago

I want a wealth redistribution program as redress for past injustices. Current concentrations of wealth and property are the result of force and fraud, and I do not see how anyone should support preserving those distributions, let alone enshrining their preservation as a moral imperative.

sanderjd 10y ago

Personally, I thought the ACA was a very honest plan. The individual mandate is a very clear statement of: healthy people must get insurance so that we can offset the cost of requiring that sick people can get insurance. I never had any illusions that, as a healthy young person, this would do anything besides increase medical costs (including insurance premiums) for me, as a trade-off against the possibility that I may one day be one of the older and/or sick people that it would benefit. I hoped it would decrease costs because we would no longer need to subsidize the uninsured by making up for care providers' lost revenue, but I didn't think that would (especially in the short term) be anything besides shifting that subsidy from being included in the cost of care to being included in premiums and federal taxes. I was pretty sure it was going to make things more expensive for me, and I don't think it was sold any differently than that. I was not in favor of it, largely because I didn't think it would survive politically long enough for me to switch from the "loses" to the "benefits" category. We're sort of seeing that now, except that I'm actually sort of optimistic that its 6-year (or so) survival has enshrined it or something like it. I believe a repeal-without-replace plan will be completely disastrous for the incoming government and that whatever government is next will have popular support to backtrack, and that a repeal-and-replace plan will end up settling on something very similar, maybe even with some free-market-based improvements!