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“We believe that we live in the ‘age of information'. That there has been an information ‘explosion,’ an information ‘revolution.’ While in a certain narrow sen

“We believe that we live in the ‘age of information'. That there has been an information ‘explosion,’ an information ‘revolution.’ While in a certain narrow sense this is the case, in many important ways just the opposite is true. We also live at a moment of deep ignorance, when vital knowledge that humans have always possessed about who we are and where we live seems beyond our reach. An Unenlightenment. An age of missing information.” -- Bill McKibben, The Age of Missing Information, 1992 McKibben's book, just like Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to Death, is even more relevant to the internet age than the television age. There is something insidious about "information" that's doled out like slot tokens at a casino. Something dangerous about "facts" that are carefully designed to fit with what we want to believe. Something manipulative about "teaching" that is designed to fit through the gaps in our mental defenses for the benefit of the "teacher". This week I've met otherwise "normal" people who are flat-earthers, anti-vaccers, and who believe Hillary is a Satanist and Trump is the "Bringer of Light". But ultimately who cares if your hairdresser is an anti-vaccer, or your tennis partner is a flat-earther? Does it really matter if that cute girl at the check-out is an anti-Semite? Does it harm anyone if the guy building your deck believes in zero-point energy? So long as people fulfill their economic roles quietly and efficiently, does it really matter what's in their hearts and minds? It's all relative isn't it?

ffggvv 10y ago
Sometimes I wonder, what if earth is really flat? What if we thought we were right but instead we were the flat-earthers? What is truth?? EDIT: Well if Trump takes us to war, we will see a lot of fireworks /s.
- b_emery 10y ago
  > Sometimes I wonder, what if earth is really flat? Feel free to prove it to yourself: http://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round http://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round
  - RUG3Y 10y ago
    I know he got downvoted to hell but he's making a solid point. Of course the Earth is not flat, but there are times when the consensus view proves to be incorrect. In 100 years, who knows what "truths" we hold to today will be proven to be falsehoods?
- kekimo 10y ago
  Leftist believe they are never wrong and everyone who disagrees is Hitler and makes them literally shake.
ue_ 10y ago
I'm a little bothered by the "fulfill their economic roles quietly and efficiently" part. I don't know if it was your intention, but from my point of view this seems like you're saying to effectively shut up and get on with the job. I do not agree with this line of thinking; often people have valid problems with what they're doing. I think that if there is injustice, one should speak up about it, rather than "fulfilling their economic roles quietly". I don't know what's so unnerving about this statement. It's so enforcing the status quo, I'd guess. I say that if you're a Communist, or a Nazi, or whatever persuasion, and you feel something is unjust - speak up about it. Many people would rightly think there's something wrong with the current state of affairs. A step back from that, should those sweatshop workers in Bangladesh fulfill their economic roles quietly and efficiently? I'd say it matters a great deal what's on their hearts and minds. And if it matters to them, if they have problems, why wouldn't it matter to us? Because our labour isn't being exploited as much? I'm sorry if this comments comes accross as attackative, I just took issue with the statement. Please correct me if you didn't mean this at all. It unnerved me.
- westoncb 10y ago
  I'm almost certain the parent's comment is tongue in cheek. The last sentence, "It's all relative isn't it?" seems clearly mocking. Of course if I'm mistaken, then I totally agree!
  - pjc50 10y ago
    Poe's law: sarcasm is now indistinguishable from sincerely argued extreme positions.
syntheticnature 10y ago
Do... do they know that Lucifer is referred to as the "Lightbringer?" That said, as for your hairdresser, tennis partner, etc... in a democracy it can make a difference if enough of them are anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, anti-Semites, etc.!
- costcopizza 10y ago
  Your second line reminds me of an essay I read: https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15#.7tl6mwnni https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...
pjc50 10y ago
> Does it really matter if that cute girl at the check-out is an anti-Semite? This matters rather a lot if you're Jewish. You're arguing that "it doesn't matter if you don't look up", Star Wars passim. Similarly it matters if your hairdresser is an anti-vaccer and spreads something contagious to you. A certain amount of difference can be looked past, but when it comes to matters of life and death - and it can come to that surprisingly easily when things get heated - it matters.
- A_Crazy_Idea 10y ago
  Aren't all opinions a function of preferences, born out of evolution and environment? Only if we had some kind of book...
- superflyguy 10y ago
  You've not really made the case that those are life and death examples though. It's more likely the person who's not an anti semite is the one who's going to get heated in any discussion about it.
akiselev 10y ago
But ultimately who cares if your hairdresser is an anti-vaccer, or your tennis partner is a flat-earther? Does it really matter if that cute girl at the check-out is an anti-Semite? Does it harm anyone if the guy building your deck believes in zero-point energy? Just wait until diseases that were previously eliminated from the continent cause outbreaks in the elementary school your child attends. Just wait until a demagogue exploits prejudices to commit unspeakable atrocities or until some ideologues push anti-intellectualism to the point where our leaders are unable to overcome partisanship long enough to even acknowledge the existence of what might well soon be the biggest change in our species' environment since the last ice age. All of this has happened before and all of this is happening now, right before our eyes. We can care about all of these conflicting perspectives and try to mold them without becoming unbearable zealots. We can't afford not to. (I think I missed your invisible /s?)
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
It's funny - the name Lucifer means "bringer of light". Your metaphor has a Mobius strip problem :) it apparently matters a great deal to a great many people what is in other people's hearts and minds. I suspect they don't have enough .... ego or something. The metaphor I have used with my kids about this is "they have stopped having a reflection in the mirror, or they have nothing but the reflection in the mirror." Honestly? Seriously? The pastor at my childhood church thought that things like "Godspell" and "Jesus Christ Superstar" would lead to narcissism and a vapid sense of identity. And not just because religion - the general ...emphasis on self was a thing to be skeptical of. It wasn't a ... liturgical argument - he was a trained psychologist. I am not sure wasn't right. It also makes me think of Otto's burned out hippie parents from "Repo Man", listening to the TV preacher.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

ffggvv 10y ago

Sometimes I wonder, what if earth is really flat? What if we thought we were right but instead we were the flat-earthers? What is truth?? EDIT: Well if Trump takes us to war, we will see a lot of fireworks /s.

b_emery 10y ago
> Sometimes I wonder, what if earth is really flat? Feel free to prove it to yourself: http://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round http://www.popsci.com/10-ways-you-can-prove-earth-is-round
- RUG3Y 10y ago
  I know he got downvoted to hell but he's making a solid point. Of course the Earth is not flat, but there are times when the consensus view proves to be incorrect. In 100 years, who knows what "truths" we hold to today will be proven to be falsehoods?
kekimo 10y ago
Leftist believe they are never wrong and everyone who disagrees is Hitler and makes them literally shake.

ue_ 10y ago

I'm a little bothered by the "fulfill their economic roles quietly and efficiently" part. I don't know if it was your intention, but from my point of view this seems like you're saying to effectively shut up and get on with the job. I do not agree with this line of thinking; often people have valid problems with what they're doing. I think that if there is injustice, one should speak up about it, rather than "fulfilling their economic roles quietly". I don't know what's so unnerving about this statement. It's so enforcing the status quo, I'd guess. I say that if you're a Communist, or a Nazi, or whatever persuasion, and you feel something is unjust - speak up about it. Many people would rightly think there's something wrong with the current state of affairs. A step back from that, should those sweatshop workers in Bangladesh fulfill their economic roles quietly and efficiently? I'd say it matters a great deal what's on their hearts and minds. And if it matters to them, if they have problems, why wouldn't it matter to us? Because our labour isn't being exploited as much? I'm sorry if this comments comes accross as attackative, I just took issue with the statement. Please correct me if you didn't mean this at all. It unnerved me.

westoncb 10y ago
I'm almost certain the parent's comment is tongue in cheek. The last sentence, "It's all relative isn't it?" seems clearly mocking. Of course if I'm mistaken, then I totally agree!
- pjc50 10y ago
  Poe's law: sarcasm is now indistinguishable from sincerely argued extreme positions.

syntheticnature 10y ago

Do... do they know that Lucifer is referred to as the "Lightbringer?" That said, as for your hairdresser, tennis partner, etc... in a democracy it can make a difference if enough of them are anti-vaxxers, flat-earthers, anti-Semites, etc.!

costcopizza 10y ago
Your second line reminds me of an essay I read: https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dictatorship-of-the-small-minority-3f1f83ce4e15#.7tl6mwnni https://medium.com/incerto/the-most-intolerant-wins-the-dict...

pjc50 10y ago

> Does it really matter if that cute girl at the check-out is an anti-Semite? This matters rather a lot if you're Jewish. You're arguing that "it doesn't matter if you don't look up", Star Wars passim. Similarly it matters if your hairdresser is an anti-vaccer and spreads something contagious to you. A certain amount of difference can be looked past, but when it comes to matters of life and death - and it can come to that surprisingly easily when things get heated - it matters.

A_Crazy_Idea 10y ago
Aren't all opinions a function of preferences, born out of evolution and environment? Only if we had some kind of book...
superflyguy 10y ago
You've not really made the case that those are life and death examples though. It's more likely the person who's not an anti semite is the one who's going to get heated in any discussion about it.

akiselev 10y ago

But ultimately who cares if your hairdresser is an anti-vaccer, or your tennis partner is a flat-earther? Does it really matter if that cute girl at the check-out is an anti-Semite? Does it harm anyone if the guy building your deck believes in zero-point energy? Just wait until diseases that were previously eliminated from the continent cause outbreaks in the elementary school your child attends. Just wait until a demagogue exploits prejudices to commit unspeakable atrocities or until some ideologues push anti-intellectualism to the point where our leaders are unable to overcome partisanship long enough to even acknowledge the existence of what might well soon be the biggest change in our species' environment since the last ice age. All of this has happened before and all of this is happening now, right before our eyes. We can care about all of these conflicting perspectives and try to mold them without becoming unbearable zealots. We can't afford not to. (I think I missed your invisible /s?)

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

It's funny - the name Lucifer means "bringer of light". Your metaphor has a Mobius strip problem :) it apparently matters a great deal to a great many people what is in other people's hearts and minds. I suspect they don't have enough .... ego or something. The metaphor I have used with my kids about this is "they have stopped having a reflection in the mirror, or they have nothing but the reflection in the mirror." Honestly? Seriously? The pastor at my childhood church thought that things like "Godspell" and "Jesus Christ Superstar" would lead to narcissism and a vapid sense of identity. And not just because religion - the general ...emphasis on self was a thing to be skeptical of. It wasn't a ... liturgical argument - he was a trained psychologist. I am not sure wasn't right. It also makes me think of Otto's burned out hippie parents from "Repo Man", listening to the TV preacher.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]