4 ms·

I'm a little confused. The page you linked describes high deductible ACA plans (aka HSA eligible plans.)

Retric 10y ago
To clarify. HSA require a deductible of at least $1,300 for one person, so people have starting calling that a 'high' deductible from 2003 or so. Before ACA you could by health insurance with a 15,000$ deductible as an individual. After, ACA the individual out of pocket maximum is $7,150 per year for an individual. So, now legally the maximum is below the old pre HSA threshold for 'high' deductible.
- TillE 10y ago
  Deductibles are insane, period. It's a horrendous concept unless you're rich. You don't get them in most (all?) countries with universal coverage, not even in hybrid systems like Germany's with their public insurance options.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - jimmyk 10y ago
    What is insane about wanting to pay a low monthly premium in exchange for insurance that only kicks in for very expensive events?
    - gnaritas 10y ago
      It's insane because it just forces people who can't afford the deductible anyway to choose this plan for the low premium thus breaking the entire point of the system.
      - jimmyk 10y ago
        If someone can't afford either A) the monthly premiums for a plan with a low deductible or B) the high deductible associated with a low premium plan, then that person is not capable of paying for their own health care and needs charity. It is certainly insane to expect people who are incapable of paying for their own health care to be capable of paying for their own health care. But the health insurance market is not there for people who are incapable of paying for their own health care.
        gnaritas 10y ago
        > then that person is not capable of paying for their own health care and needs charity They need an effective government and socialized medicine. Charity is not a workable solution. > It is certainly insane to expect people who are incapable of paying for their own health care to be capable of paying for their own health care. But the health insurance market is not there for people who are incapable of paying for their own health care. Sure it is, that's exactly why it's there, hence the subsidies. It's a shitty system, better than it was, but still crap that needs to be replaced with socialized medicine.
        jimmyk 10y ago
        >They need an effective government and socialized medicine. Charity is not a workable solution. Whether the charity comes through government or private organizations is not relevant to my point. The point is that they need someone else to pay for it, and not via a normal market transaction. >Sure it is, that's exactly why it's there, hence the subsidies. Allow me to rephrase: The health insurance market is not there to ensure everyone is able to afford to pay for their own health care needs. It is not broken because some people are not able to afford to participate in it. That is not its purpose. Judging it to be 'broken' or 'insane' because it doesn't do something that it's not intended to do is ridiculous.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > So, now legally the maximum is below the old threshold for 'high' deductible. The HSA-tied minimum was the old threshold for "high-deductible" since the HSA/HDHP pairing was created, which was several years before Obama was elected.
  - Retric 10y ago
    Yes, edited for clarity. In the mid 90's a high deductible plan was on the order of 10k for an individual. Really there is not a lot of room between zero deductible and $1,300/year for a 'low' or 'medium' deductible and making the new definition silly. This also added a lot of confusion as what was considered normal was suddenly called high.
- Amezarak 10y ago
  > so people have starting calling that a 'high' deductible. It's not 'people', it's the government, for what that's worth. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p969/ar02.html#en_US_2015_publink1000204025 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p969/ar02.html#en_US_2015_p...

To clarify. HSA require a deductible of at least $1,300 for one person, so people have starting calling that a 'high' deductible from 2003 or so. Before ACA you could by health insurance with a 15,000$ deductible as an individual. After, ACA the individual out of pocket maximum is $7,150 per year for an individual. So, now legally the maximum is below the old pre HSA threshold for 'high' deductible.

TillE 10y ago
Deductibles are insane, period. It's a horrendous concept unless you're rich. You don't get them in most (all?) countries with universal coverage, not even in hybrid systems like Germany's with their public insurance options.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- jimmyk 10y ago
  What is insane about wanting to pay a low monthly premium in exchange for insurance that only kicks in for very expensive events?
  - gnaritas 10y ago
    It's insane because it just forces people who can't afford the deductible anyway to choose this plan for the low premium thus breaking the entire point of the system.
    - jimmyk 10y ago
      If someone can't afford either A) the monthly premiums for a plan with a low deductible or B) the high deductible associated with a low premium plan, then that person is not capable of paying for their own health care and needs charity. It is certainly insane to expect people who are incapable of paying for their own health care to be capable of paying for their own health care. But the health insurance market is not there for people who are incapable of paying for their own health care.
      - gnaritas 10y ago
        > then that person is not capable of paying for their own health care and needs charity They need an effective government and socialized medicine. Charity is not a workable solution. > It is certainly insane to expect people who are incapable of paying for their own health care to be capable of paying for their own health care. But the health insurance market is not there for people who are incapable of paying for their own health care. Sure it is, that's exactly why it's there, hence the subsidies. It's a shitty system, better than it was, but still crap that needs to be replaced with socialized medicine.
        jimmyk 10y ago
        >They need an effective government and socialized medicine. Charity is not a workable solution. Whether the charity comes through government or private organizations is not relevant to my point. The point is that they need someone else to pay for it, and not via a normal market transaction. >Sure it is, that's exactly why it's there, hence the subsidies. Allow me to rephrase: The health insurance market is not there to ensure everyone is able to afford to pay for their own health care needs. It is not broken because some people are not able to afford to participate in it. That is not its purpose. Judging it to be 'broken' or 'insane' because it doesn't do something that it's not intended to do is ridiculous.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> So, now legally the maximum is below the old threshold for 'high' deductible. The HSA-tied minimum was the old threshold for "high-deductible" since the HSA/HDHP pairing was created, which was several years before Obama was elected.
- Retric 10y ago
  Yes, edited for clarity. In the mid 90's a high deductible plan was on the order of 10k for an individual. Really there is not a lot of room between zero deductible and $1,300/year for a 'low' or 'medium' deductible and making the new definition silly. This also added a lot of confusion as what was considered normal was suddenly called high.
Amezarak 10y ago
> so people have starting calling that a 'high' deductible. It's not 'people', it's the government, for what that's worth. https://www.irs.gov/publications/p969/ar02.html#en_US_2015_publink1000204025 https://www.irs.gov/publications/p969/ar02.html#en_US_2015_p...