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How do you talk people down after spending a year telling them Hitler was coming to power? The same media that created Broadway shows to lambaste the last Presi

by Pigo 10y ago

How do you talk people down after spending a year telling them Hitler was coming to power? The same media that created Broadway shows to lambaste the last President for being a war-monger are crying tearful farewells for Barry because he said something about climate change once. All the willful ignorance I see day in and day out gets harder and harder to take.

epistasis 10y ago
Wow, with such a biased estimation of events, you must be talking about your own willful ignorance. "Barry because he something about climate change once." If you willfully ignore everything that has happened, then perhaps you're not impressed or don't see drastic differences. "How do you talk people down after spending a year telling them Hitler was coming to power?" Which is of course not in the least bit realistic. Sure, one can create strawmen all day, and use those strawmen to push whatever argument they want, but nobody is the wiser for it. If you actually try to look at the world with as clear eyes as possible, rather than through the most rosy-colored or other filtered view, you will have a better chance of getting through days without them being hard and also of convincing people of your points of view.
- sp332 10y ago
  The Obama part was a bit of hyperbole, not a strawman. But people really were saying Trump is literally Hitler. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-road-ahead_us_57e03be4e4b08cb1409749f2 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-road-ahead_us_57e03b...
  - epistasis 10y ago
    Uh, your article does not support your thesis. And it's not a mainstream perspective, it is at best a hyperbole of people saying hyperbolic things. Two hyperboles don't make a right.
    - rfrank 10y ago
      1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/donald-trump-is-actually-a-fascist/2016/12/09/e193a2b6-bd77-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/donald-trump-is-actu... 2. https://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/14-signs-show-trumps-political-persona-aligns-with-that-of-a-fascist-leader_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/14-signs-show-trumps-politi... 3. https://newrepublic.com/minutes/124205/yes-donald-trump-fascist https://newrepublic.com/minutes/124205/yes-donald-trump-fasc... 4. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/11/foul-stench-fascism-161110100340474.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/11/foul-stenc... 5. http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/05/31/yes-a-trump-presidency-would-bring-fascism-to-america/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/ http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=http://www.forbe... 6. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/american-authoritarianism-under-donald-trump/495263/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/america...
      - epistasis 10y ago
        1. "It’s ridiculous to compare any living person to Hitler or Mussolini." 2. No mention of Hitler. A point by point comparison to a historical and previous description of fascism. 3. Not Hitler, talks about conservatism and totalitarianism. 4. No mention of Hitler anywhere. 5. " I am not suggesting that what is happening in the United States replicates in every sense what happened in Italy and Germany. " 6. "The Republican presidential candidate is not a Fascist, but his campaign bears notable similarities to the reign of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini." Compare these viewpoints to the claim of "But people really were saying Trump is literally Hitler." Edit: I should also say that I don't doubt you could come up with something somewhere where somebody claimed that Trump is "literally Hitler." However, it is not a prevalent or even mainstream viewpoint. Even calling Trump a fascist, and defending it based on evidence, is a pretty extreme and rare viewpoint.
        rfrank 10y ago
        His point was broadly about the tone in which Trump has been described in the media, and how that contributes to the division that currently exists in America. "How do you talk people down after spending a year telling them Hitler was coming to power?" vs. "How do you talk people down after spending a year telling them a fascist was coming to power?" isn't a very meaningful distinction to me in that context. Your mileage may vary. Many mainstream outlets have expressed that opinion for a long time, and it's a point of view I've seen defended here on HN many times in political threads. I don't think it's a fringe viewpoint at all.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

by Pigo 10y ago

epistasis 10y ago

Wow, with such a biased estimation of events, you must be talking about your own willful ignorance. "Barry because he something about climate change once." If you willfully ignore everything that has happened, then perhaps you're not impressed or don't see drastic differences. "How do you talk people down after spending a year telling them Hitler was coming to power?" Which is of course not in the least bit realistic. Sure, one can create strawmen all day, and use those strawmen to push whatever argument they want, but nobody is the wiser for it. If you actually try to look at the world with as clear eyes as possible, rather than through the most rosy-colored or other filtered view, you will have a better chance of getting through days without them being hard and also of convincing people of your points of view.

sp332 10y ago
The Obama part was a bit of hyperbole, not a strawman. But people really were saying Trump is literally Hitler. http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-road-ahead_us_57e03be4e4b08cb1409749f2 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/the-road-ahead_us_57e03b...
- epistasis 10y ago
  Uh, your article does not support your thesis. And it's not a mainstream perspective, it is at best a hyperbole of people saying hyperbolic things. Two hyperboles don't make a right.
  - rfrank 10y ago
    1. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/donald-trump-is-actually-a-fascist/2016/12/09/e193a2b6-bd77-11e6-94ac-3d324840106c_story.html https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/donald-trump-is-actu... 2. https://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/14-signs-show-trumps-political-persona-aligns-with-that-of-a-fascist-leader_partner/ https://www.salon.com/2016/12/20/14-signs-show-trumps-politi... 3. https://newrepublic.com/minutes/124205/yes-donald-trump-fascist https://newrepublic.com/minutes/124205/yes-donald-trump-fasc... 4. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/11/foul-stench-fascism-161110100340474.html http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/features/2016/11/foul-stenc... 5. http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2016/05/31/yes-a-trump-presidency-would-bring-fascism-to-america/&refURL=https://www.google.com/&referrer=https://www.google.com/ http://www.forbes.com/forbes/welcome/?toURL=http://www.forbe... 6. https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/american-authoritarianism-under-donald-trump/495263/ https://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2016/08/america...
    - epistasis 10y ago
      1. "It’s ridiculous to compare any living person to Hitler or Mussolini." 2. No mention of Hitler. A point by point comparison to a historical and previous description of fascism. 3. Not Hitler, talks about conservatism and totalitarianism. 4. No mention of Hitler anywhere. 5. " I am not suggesting that what is happening in the United States replicates in every sense what happened in Italy and Germany. " 6. "The Republican presidential candidate is not a Fascist, but his campaign bears notable similarities to the reign of Italian dictator Benito Mussolini." Compare these viewpoints to the claim of "But people really were saying Trump is literally Hitler." Edit: I should also say that I don't doubt you could come up with something somewhere where somebody claimed that Trump is "literally Hitler." However, it is not a prevalent or even mainstream viewpoint. Even calling Trump a fascist, and defending it based on evidence, is a pretty extreme and rare viewpoint.
      - rfrank 10y ago
        His point was broadly about the tone in which Trump has been described in the media, and how that contributes to the division that currently exists in America. "How do you talk people down after spending a year telling them Hitler was coming to power?" vs. "How do you talk people down after spending a year telling them a fascist was coming to power?" isn't a very meaningful distinction to me in that context. Your mileage may vary. Many mainstream outlets have expressed that opinion for a long time, and it's a point of view I've seen defended here on HN many times in political threads. I don't think it's a fringe viewpoint at all.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]