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Good point, but there is an explanation: blocking WhatsApp would lead to more intense backlash. See what happened in Brazil. Not to say it isn't both, but the

Good point, but there is an explanation: blocking WhatsApp would lead to more intense backlash. See what happened in Brazil. Not to say it isn't both, but the price of blocking (one of) the most popular messaging apps is higher to a government than blocking one in the low low percentiles of usage.

niksakl 10y ago
What you say makes blocking Signal pointless. If they blocked Signal just because it was less of a trouble to block compared to WhatsApp, then all the people that were on Signal will easily switch to WhatsApp... What you have at this point, is a government paying the price of blocking a less popular messaging app they cannot control, while the people they are after can just switch to a MASSIVELY used messaging app the gov can also not control and additionally, is too expensive to block. If this was the case,it would actually work against the gov. Do not underestimate gov authorities, they are not THAT naive. If they had not blocked Signal at all, they could at least track Signal users and at least have that information: that this small group of people (Signal users), contains the group of people they are after. They could have their honey pot there. Mixing the "dangerous" Signal userbase with the chaotic massive userbase of WhatsApp makes no sense, unless you really have WhatsApp on your side. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. edit: rephrasing
- JamisonM 10y ago
  I wouldn't overestimate government authorities either. A report on a person of interest crosses the desk of a deputy minister that says the person uses Signal could be enough to get the application blocked in the country. Elected officials and political appointees demand action on things that are counter to their interests all the time, the people that execute those orders (if they appreciate that the order is counter-productive in the first place) have to decide what measures are worth fighting and which ones are not.
EGreg 10y ago
Can you make an unblockable app?
- gcb0 10y ago
  check out Ricochet. If i recall correctly, it uses blockchain type transport over tor.
  - clort 10y ago
    how does that help, I think tor can be blocked..?
    - Crosseye_Jack 10y ago
      The GFW is able to recognise Tor usage. > The firewall searches for a bunch of bytes which identify a network connection as Tor. If these bytes are found the firewall initiates a scan of the host which is believed to be a bridge. In particular the scan is run by seemingly arbitrary Chinese computers which connect to the bridge and try to “speak Tor” to it. If this succeeds, the bridge is blocked. http://www.cs.kau.se/philwint/static/gfc/ http://www.cs.kau.se/philwint/static/gfc/
      - TeMPOraL 10y ago
        With all the things GFW does I wonder if they have some secret conferences or industry journals related to the firewall's algorithms and infrastructure.
        Crosseye_Jack 10y ago
        Don't see why not? In Jason scotts talk The Mysterious Mr Hokum [0] he talks about an owner of an early ISP who not long after selling it was found dead. Iirc During his time as owner he would often have regular meetings with FBI agents to basically discuss what was going on the net. Problem was after he died his Was actually on the run on fruad charges. I think Jason presumes he set up the ISP as another scam but he started it at the perfect time and started actually making legit money instead. So (again trying to recall the talk from memory, I must actually watch it again as I enjoyed it) this isp owner was having meetings with the FBI about his ISP all the while the FBI also wanted him on fraud charges. So yeah if the FBI don't mind having chats with ISP's just to see what's going on, I wouldn't be at all surprised if China had meetings with their ISP's too. From what I have read I about the GFW it seems that it's infrastructure differs from isp to isp. Dunno if that's cause it's left to the ISP to implement or if The Gov issue "black boxes" to do the firewall work and it's just different versions of hardware / software depending on when the boxes were issued. But yeah I do like the idea of a secret defcon but kinda in reverse that discuses the tricks and infrastructure and the bypasses they discovered in the past year but in order to better run the GFW. In my imaginary con they are all still getting drunk and hacking into the hotel signage for the shits and giggles of it though. [0] https://youtu.be/UTzQmhmgLC0 https://youtu.be/UTzQmhmgLC0

niksakl 10y ago

What you say makes blocking Signal pointless. If they blocked Signal just because it was less of a trouble to block compared to WhatsApp, then all the people that were on Signal will easily switch to WhatsApp... What you have at this point, is a government paying the price of blocking a less popular messaging app they cannot control, while the people they are after can just switch to a MASSIVELY used messaging app the gov can also not control and additionally, is too expensive to block. If this was the case,it would actually work against the gov. Do not underestimate gov authorities, they are not THAT naive. If they had not blocked Signal at all, they could at least track Signal users and at least have that information: that this small group of people (Signal users), contains the group of people they are after. They could have their honey pot there. Mixing the "dangerous" Signal userbase with the chaotic massive userbase of WhatsApp makes no sense, unless you really have WhatsApp on your side. I hope you understand what I am trying to say. edit: rephrasing

JamisonM 10y ago
I wouldn't overestimate government authorities either. A report on a person of interest crosses the desk of a deputy minister that says the person uses Signal could be enough to get the application blocked in the country. Elected officials and political appointees demand action on things that are counter to their interests all the time, the people that execute those orders (if they appreciate that the order is counter-productive in the first place) have to decide what measures are worth fighting and which ones are not.

EGreg 10y ago

Can you make an unblockable app?

gcb0 10y ago
check out Ricochet. If i recall correctly, it uses blockchain type transport over tor.
- clort 10y ago
  how does that help, I think tor can be blocked..?
  - Crosseye_Jack 10y ago
    The GFW is able to recognise Tor usage. > The firewall searches for a bunch of bytes which identify a network connection as Tor. If these bytes are found the firewall initiates a scan of the host which is believed to be a bridge. In particular the scan is run by seemingly arbitrary Chinese computers which connect to the bridge and try to “speak Tor” to it. If this succeeds, the bridge is blocked. http://www.cs.kau.se/philwint/static/gfc/ http://www.cs.kau.se/philwint/static/gfc/
    - TeMPOraL 10y ago
      With all the things GFW does I wonder if they have some secret conferences or industry journals related to the firewall's algorithms and infrastructure.
      - Crosseye_Jack 10y ago
        Don't see why not? In Jason scotts talk The Mysterious Mr Hokum [0] he talks about an owner of an early ISP who not long after selling it was found dead. Iirc During his time as owner he would often have regular meetings with FBI agents to basically discuss what was going on the net. Problem was after he died his Was actually on the run on fruad charges. I think Jason presumes he set up the ISP as another scam but he started it at the perfect time and started actually making legit money instead. So (again trying to recall the talk from memory, I must actually watch it again as I enjoyed it) this isp owner was having meetings with the FBI about his ISP all the while the FBI also wanted him on fraud charges. So yeah if the FBI don't mind having chats with ISP's just to see what's going on, I wouldn't be at all surprised if China had meetings with their ISP's too. From what I have read I about the GFW it seems that it's infrastructure differs from isp to isp. Dunno if that's cause it's left to the ISP to implement or if The Gov issue "black boxes" to do the firewall work and it's just different versions of hardware / software depending on when the boxes were issued. But yeah I do like the idea of a secret defcon but kinda in reverse that discuses the tricks and infrastructure and the bypasses they discovered in the past year but in order to better run the GFW. In my imaginary con they are all still getting drunk and hacking into the hotel signage for the shits and giggles of it though. [0] https://youtu.be/UTzQmhmgLC0 https://youtu.be/UTzQmhmgLC0