4 ms·

What did you think of the article? About the headline - it does summarise what the article is about. I doubt anyone clicked through expecting tank battles bet

What did you think of the article? About the headline - it does summarise what the article is about. I doubt anyone clicked through expecting tank battles between Trump and the CIA. 'deep state' seems to be a variant on 'state within a state' or maybe 'military-industrial complex' the latter a meme 'forced' on us by Eisenhower.

RichardHeart 10y ago
This is the kind of damaging presupposition that is the definition of Russian information warfare (disinformation)... What's the deep state? Does it include a deep judicial branch? Is there a deep military? Where's the deep congress? To assume a cabal of mutinous member of an organization that are hard to find (deep, not surface), is inflammatory and should be have a higher bar. If the CIA and the democrats colluded here, how is that either deep, or wide enough to be warrant be called the "state" ? We have specific names for these specific branches for a reason. The military is not the CIA, and is not the Democrats. Who is more a member of the military industrial complex? A. Donald trump that wants to increase military spending. B. Everyone else. If Russia didn't hack the DNC, and Rex Tillerson wasn't their pick, and Trump wasn't on Howard Stern getting called out on his Russian Hooker usage in 2001, and he had a blind trust, and he released his tax returns, and wasn't a birther, and didn't have trump steaks, airline, university, the art of the deal he didn't write, and like to invite your wife furniture shopping with tictacs in hand, then people wouldn't care about anonymously sourced reports. Listen to president himself speaking about taking a guys girlfriend from him, like a piece of property, while getting called out on his Russian ties in 2001: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/314891/trump-russia-girls-howard-stern-2001-aj-benza/ http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/314891/trump-russia-girls-ho... p.s. Panama Leaks reveals Rex Tillerson was director of Bahamas-based US-Russian oil firm, and didn't the FBI help him get elected via Comey? Are we in upside down world?
- bainsfather 10y ago
  "This is the kind of damaging presupposition that is the definition of Russian information warfare (disinformation)" Apparently I have just defined Russian information warfare? (Will you inform the Russians, or should I?) I'm afraid you have lost me, was that a reply or should it be a new comment?
  - RichardHeart 10y ago
    The presupposition that I'm referring to is that there is a "deep state." It is similar to a lawyer asking if you've stopped beating your wife. If you say no, you lose. If you say yes, you lose. Because you accepted the frame, or premise of the question. Thus frame control and accepting presuppositions is a dangerous game. It is also how you win the war of disinformation. Nearly any event, honest or not, can be spun through framing to appear crappy. Example. "Hey honey, I love that dress you're wearing." "What, you didn't like my last dress? Why don't you always complement me like that? I bet you'd like this dress better on my sister. You're only saying that because you didn't take out the garbage." So a simple complement can be converted by framing, into an act of confession. If you've never studied forum sliding or all the other tricks the Russians use every day with 100's of paid internet propagandists spreading their message, it's harder to see. Why Glen Greenwald would be using such tactics is quite beyond me. You would think that an honest journalist would put front and center who the likely humans are in this deep cabal of evil doers, or at least get us as close as he could. But he doesn't. So this piece must have some other goal, if not to expose the cabal. What it is, I am not sure. So as much as I'd love to ignore the headline, and tell you what I thought of the article separate from it, there's not much else interesting there. Except for the doublespeak. Sorry if it sounded like I was calling your post disinformation. Was only addressing the article. disinformation guide: https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
    - RichardHeart 10y ago
      Accepting the frame that there is a "deep state" without requisite evidence is harmful to critical thinking. Thinking that Trump is being screwed by the Industrial military complex, instead of being their man, is reversed. Thinking the CIA screwed Trump somehow here, while the FBI hooked him up, is also cloudy. I thought leaks could happen by single people, why is it an entire "deep state" organization? I would say that the accusation of a "deep state" is more inflammatory than Trump having hookers pee on each other or him. I'd prefer a world of watersports to shadow governments.

RichardHeart 10y ago

This is the kind of damaging presupposition that is the definition of Russian information warfare (disinformation)... What's the deep state? Does it include a deep judicial branch? Is there a deep military? Where's the deep congress? To assume a cabal of mutinous member of an organization that are hard to find (deep, not surface), is inflammatory and should be have a higher bar. If the CIA and the democrats colluded here, how is that either deep, or wide enough to be warrant be called the "state" ? We have specific names for these specific branches for a reason. The military is not the CIA, and is not the Democrats. Who is more a member of the military industrial complex? A. Donald trump that wants to increase military spending. B. Everyone else. If Russia didn't hack the DNC, and Rex Tillerson wasn't their pick, and Trump wasn't on Howard Stern getting called out on his Russian Hooker usage in 2001, and he had a blind trust, and he released his tax returns, and wasn't a birther, and didn't have trump steaks, airline, university, the art of the deal he didn't write, and like to invite your wife furniture shopping with tictacs in hand, then people wouldn't care about anonymously sourced reports. Listen to president himself speaking about taking a guys girlfriend from him, like a piece of property, while getting called out on his Russian ties in 2001: http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/314891/trump-russia-girls-howard-stern-2001-aj-benza/ http://www.deathandtaxesmag.com/314891/trump-russia-girls-ho... p.s. Panama Leaks reveals Rex Tillerson was director of Bahamas-based US-Russian oil firm, and didn't the FBI help him get elected via Comey? Are we in upside down world?

bainsfather 10y ago
"This is the kind of damaging presupposition that is the definition of Russian information warfare (disinformation)" Apparently I have just defined Russian information warfare? (Will you inform the Russians, or should I?) I'm afraid you have lost me, was that a reply or should it be a new comment?
- RichardHeart 10y ago
  The presupposition that I'm referring to is that there is a "deep state." It is similar to a lawyer asking if you've stopped beating your wife. If you say no, you lose. If you say yes, you lose. Because you accepted the frame, or premise of the question. Thus frame control and accepting presuppositions is a dangerous game. It is also how you win the war of disinformation. Nearly any event, honest or not, can be spun through framing to appear crappy. Example. "Hey honey, I love that dress you're wearing." "What, you didn't like my last dress? Why don't you always complement me like that? I bet you'd like this dress better on my sister. You're only saying that because you didn't take out the garbage." So a simple complement can be converted by framing, into an act of confession. If you've never studied forum sliding or all the other tricks the Russians use every day with 100's of paid internet propagandists spreading their message, it's harder to see. Why Glen Greenwald would be using such tactics is quite beyond me. You would think that an honest journalist would put front and center who the likely humans are in this deep cabal of evil doers, or at least get us as close as he could. But he doesn't. So this piece must have some other goal, if not to expose the cabal. What it is, I am not sure. So as much as I'd love to ignore the headline, and tell you what I thought of the article separate from it, there's not much else interesting there. Except for the doublespeak. Sorry if it sounded like I was calling your post disinformation. Was only addressing the article. disinformation guide: https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm https://cryptome.org/2012/07/gent-forum-spies.htm
  - RichardHeart 10y ago
    Accepting the frame that there is a "deep state" without requisite evidence is harmful to critical thinking. Thinking that Trump is being screwed by the Industrial military complex, instead of being their man, is reversed. Thinking the CIA screwed Trump somehow here, while the FBI hooked him up, is also cloudy. I thought leaks could happen by single people, why is it an entire "deep state" organization? I would say that the accusation of a "deep state" is more inflammatory than Trump having hookers pee on each other or him. I'd prefer a world of watersports to shadow governments.