3 ms·

Without boot level security, it's easy for the NSAs of the world to slip in a hard drive or two with extra "surprise" software on it, later engaging in active/p

by puzzle 10y ago

Without boot level security, it's easy for the NSAs of the world to slip in a hard drive or two with extra "surprise" software on it, later engaging in active/passive surveillance or credential theft. Always assume that any one single employee could be compromised.

contingencies 10y ago
First of all, NSA hardware attacks of this ilk are supposed to occur through mail. Operations the scale of Google can acquire hardware in a secure/monitored fashion that bypasses public shipping facilities which would largely frustrate this type of attack. Also, I would hazard a guess than Google building their own hardware makes attacks on their boards far more difficult than for the rest of us. As for disks, they would be acquired in serial numbered batches from known suppliers and could be quickly tested to match known performance and sensor (eg. heat) metrics at the time of ingress. This is not very difficult, and assists in protection against tampering. In addition, the use of commercial grade disk hardware acquired in large batches means that the ultimate internal destination of a given disk in the organization is very difficult to ascertain, therefore the workload would be unidentifiable. Careful internal distribution processes would add stronger protections. Regardless of a compromised disk, proper architecture in a large-scale system mitigates the impact and data exfiltration capacity of individual compromised machines. Removed hardware would always be destroyed.
- puzzle 10y ago
  With the NSA's budget, I don't see why they would limit themselves to mail-only attacks. They could compromise any level in the supply chain, especially for targets which are worth the effort. They, or, more likely, the Brits tapped Google's DC-to-DC fiber and reverse engineered all sorts of internal protocols, as seen in Snowden's leaks.
  - chinathrow 10y ago
    Yes - or they rigged _all_ commercially available HSMs in use for encrypting a DC-to-DC fiber.
    - puzzle 10y ago
      I think it was Neils Provos who said on stage that Google does not trust link encryption, but rather prefers end-to-end, even though that's a much greater problem in terms of key management.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
notriddle 10y ago
The NSA's of the world don't need to hack Google's infrastructure. They can just ask. This is protection from rogue employees acting independently, assuming it's not just marketing and ego-stroking for the engineers.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  Why don't you google "NSA google smiley face".
  - leesalminen 10y ago
    I don't get it....search results returned only your comment.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      First result for that search: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/30/nsa_smiley_face_muscular_spying_on_google_yahoo_speaks_volumes_about_agency.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/30/nsa_smile... OPs comment: > The NSA's of the world don't need to hack Google's infrastructure. They can just ask. NSA doesn't just ask; they found ways to MITM Google.
  - skybrian 10y ago
    Yes, and that happened before many of the security measures described in this doc were in place. It's one of the reasons behind Google's current and ongoing investments in security. Knowing that yes, the NSA is going after you is a wake-up call. In particular, the doc says all data on the WAN (between data centers) is now encrypted.

by puzzle 10y ago

contingencies 10y ago

First of all, NSA hardware attacks of this ilk are supposed to occur through mail. Operations the scale of Google can acquire hardware in a secure/monitored fashion that bypasses public shipping facilities which would largely frustrate this type of attack. Also, I would hazard a guess than Google building their own hardware makes attacks on their boards far more difficult than for the rest of us. As for disks, they would be acquired in serial numbered batches from known suppliers and could be quickly tested to match known performance and sensor (eg. heat) metrics at the time of ingress. This is not very difficult, and assists in protection against tampering. In addition, the use of commercial grade disk hardware acquired in large batches means that the ultimate internal destination of a given disk in the organization is very difficult to ascertain, therefore the workload would be unidentifiable. Careful internal distribution processes would add stronger protections. Regardless of a compromised disk, proper architecture in a large-scale system mitigates the impact and data exfiltration capacity of individual compromised machines. Removed hardware would always be destroyed.

puzzle 10y ago
With the NSA's budget, I don't see why they would limit themselves to mail-only attacks. They could compromise any level in the supply chain, especially for targets which are worth the effort. They, or, more likely, the Brits tapped Google's DC-to-DC fiber and reverse engineered all sorts of internal protocols, as seen in Snowden's leaks.
- chinathrow 10y ago
  Yes - or they rigged _all_ commercially available HSMs in use for encrypting a DC-to-DC fiber.
  - puzzle 10y ago
    I think it was Neils Provos who said on stage that Google does not trust link encryption, but rather prefers end-to-end, even though that's a much greater problem in terms of key management.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]

notriddle 10y ago

The NSA's of the world don't need to hack Google's infrastructure. They can just ask. This is protection from rogue employees acting independently, assuming it's not just marketing and ego-stroking for the engineers.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
Why don't you google "NSA google smiley face".
- leesalminen 10y ago
  I don't get it....search results returned only your comment.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    First result for that search: http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/30/nsa_smiley_face_muscular_spying_on_google_yahoo_speaks_volumes_about_agency.html http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_tense/2013/10/30/nsa_smile... OPs comment: > The NSA's of the world don't need to hack Google's infrastructure. They can just ask. NSA doesn't just ask; they found ways to MITM Google.
- skybrian 10y ago
  Yes, and that happened before many of the security measures described in this doc were in place. It's one of the reasons behind Google's current and ongoing investments in security. Knowing that yes, the NSA is going after you is a wake-up call. In particular, the doc says all data on the WAN (between data centers) is now encrypted.