11 ms·

Lasers activate killer instinct in mice

98 points by stichers 10y ago

benmcnelly 10y ago
They know they are playing with fire here. You want zombie mice? because this is how you get zombie mice. "This left him fairly certain that the experiments were triggering predation, not hunger or aggression."
- nom 10y ago
  They could reuse the laser to make the next-gen cat toy. Laser mice, yay!
grabcocque 10y ago
I... just had a great idea for a weapon. Anyone know the best way to get DARPA funding?
- mmjaa 10y ago
  The scientists who already had this great idea, perhaps?
- 0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
  Actually, why don't you sell it to some credulous enemies?
  - wosos 10y ago
    I heard about some Doctor E. Vil, who might be interested.
- dbarlett 10y ago
  https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb
- batbomb 10y ago
  I halfway wrote a short story in my head on this about five years ago. The science gist of it was this: DARPA funded a project based on the ultimate goal of being able to regenerate limbs, treat PTSD, etc... Comcast got a hold of it, Comcast makes a killing handing out "vecks" for free, but sitting in the light show costs you. The light shows are orchestrated by comcast-recruited DJs to do light shows and play with your serotonin, dopamine, and adrenaline levels. People become light junkies The kicker is that the virus has to be activated with a proprietary sequence of light. Meanwhile, guy from failed DARPA project, the first light junky, gets this for free as a side-effect from the DARPA project, but he has to go to his friend for it.
  - nitrogen 10y ago
    Very vaguely similar to the novel Terminal Man by Michael Crichton.
woliveirajr 10y ago
> Because the central amygdala is involved in so many different behaviours, she says, future research needs to tease out the precise neuronal circuits involved in hunting. “The central amygdala has been linked to escape and flight — this is completely different from that.” In other words, don't be precise and your soldiers will run away instead of attacking the enemy.
ohyes 10y ago
"First, they infected the mice with a virus that made the neurons in their brains sensitive to blue light." They can do this? This is amazing to me! It also makes me a little afraid that I'll get infected by a virus and mind controlled.
- FreeFull 10y ago
  You'd still need for someone to cut your skull open to shine the blue light in. At that point, you've got problems either way.
  - rudolf0 10y ago
    "First, they infected the mice with a virus that made their amygdala sensitive to augmented optic nerve activity in response to specific pixel patterns."
    - dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago
      This is a rudimentary form of the plot of Serenity (the Firefly movie), if I'm interpreting that correctly. Kingsmen, too.
    - NoGravitas 10y ago
      Do not look back at the image of the Parrot, shatter goggles or no shatter goggles. http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm
  - ianmcgowan 10y ago
    Not if you can persuade/modify a fungus to do the same thing. This is basically the plot of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Girl_with_All_the_Gifts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Girl_with_All_the_Gifts
- Karunamon 10y ago
  If you want some real nightmare fuel, imagine a fungus that gets into your body, drives you to a high place, destroys your motor control nerves so you're stuck in place, and then fatally bursts out a fruiting body from the back of your head, spreading more spores? Be glad you're not an ant :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis
dragontamer 10y ago
Correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds like the plot of "Kingsman" Warning violent Movie ahead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25683IE5v9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25683IE5v9g
iamdave 10y ago
http://data.whicdn.com/images/87516929/large.gif http://data.whicdn.com/images/87516929/large.gif I wish I had never read that, damn nature, you scary.
- pc86 10y ago
  Please do not post image memes on HN.
  - iamdave 10y ago
    Oh sorry, I must have missed the part in the comments guidelines that says comments must be entirely serious in nature and having a giggle is verboten. May I suggest lightenUp.app? p.s. it's not a meme, it's gif.
    - thatguy0900 10y ago
      If you like how this forum is different then other forums, then we shouldn't try to bring the culture from other forums here.
      - iamdave 10y ago
        I enjoy the content sure, but I didn't realize a harmless gif in reaction to an admittedly scary virus that explodes insects would draw such reactions. I'll just log off for the day and go enjoy Friday on those other forums.
        nv-vn 10y ago
        Heh, I feel that same way every time I experience something like this on here. People get way too worked up over things that don't matter at all. For some reason I keep coming back here though...
  - photogrammetry 10y ago
    Were you triggered?
derefr 10y ago
If anyone is wondering, the lasers aren't an essential element of what's going on here; the point is that targeted electrical stimulation to a certain area of the brain causes this behaviour. With areas on the brain surface, you could just use a wire for this. For areas deeper in the brain, however, you can't exactly feed a wire in there without destroying things, so instead, you use optogenetics: you get a virus to be the "end" of the wire (finding the right area of the brain to live in, and then converting light pulses into electrical pulses) and then you point a laser at the brain and the viruses "go off" in response. The virus is essentially just serving as one half of an electrical optoisolator. As an added benefit for the optogenetic approach, the electrical pulses released by the viruses are each local to their host cells, so they won't have nearly as much "bleed-over" into surrounding tissue as you'd see with one strong pulse from a wire.
- Balgair 10y ago
  Thats pretty much right, but it's not the viruses that are interacting with the light. The virus is injected, and then infects cells. It re-writes their DNA, like a lot of viruses we are all made sick by, and inserts a DNA code into the cell. In wild viruses, that DNA code would make other viruses and start the process of infection all over again. Here, that DNA code is for a protein called an 'opsin'. Just like in your retina and eyes, this opsin protein is affect by light of certain colors. In the case of exciting the nerve cell to 'fire' (the other general case is inhibiting the cell from 'firing') the opsin protein is in the cell wall and opens up the cell to the extra-cellular environment. Similar to osmosis, this causes some of the ions in the fluids (Sodium, Potassium, Calcium, etc) to rush in or out of the cell. The specifics depend a lot on the particular cell, but mostly on the relative concentration of the ions in the cell and in the extracellular fluids. Shine light, the protein (delivered via viral infection) opens, ions rush in/out, the cell 'fires'. Also, in longer axons like in the eye or the spine, you do have cross talk like with copper wires. BUT only if those axons are un-myelinated. That is bio-talk for cells that wrap around the axons of nerve cells that are very fatty in composition. Basically, myelin is like the plastic insulation you have on copper wire. They do a lot of other things too, but in the spine and eye, they act as isolators for the nerves that have to go a long distance. When that myelin 'goes wrong', you can get disorders like ALS and such. Here are some sources to learn more about optogentics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optogenetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optogenetics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb07TLkJ3Ww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb07TLkJ3Ww
daxfohl 10y ago
All I ask for is sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.
Zorlag 10y ago
Now that is a headline!
FrancoDiaz 10y ago
That's awesome. Laser-activated, killer mice (along with sharks with lasers) need to be in the next Austin Powers movie.

98 points by stichers 10y ago

They know they are playing with fire here. You want zombie mice? because this is how you get zombie mice. "This left him fairly certain that the experiments were triggering predation, not hunger or aggression."

nom 10y ago
They could reuse the laser to make the next-gen cat toy. Laser mice, yay!

grabcocque 10y ago

I... just had a great idea for a weapon. Anyone know the best way to get DARPA funding?

mmjaa 10y ago
The scientists who already had this great idea, perhaps?
0xdeadbeefbabe 10y ago
Actually, why don't you sell it to some credulous enemies?
- wosos 10y ago
  I heard about some Doctor E. Vil, who might be interested.
dbarlett 10y ago
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gay_bomb
batbomb 10y ago
I halfway wrote a short story in my head on this about five years ago. The science gist of it was this: DARPA funded a project based on the ultimate goal of being able to regenerate limbs, treat PTSD, etc... Comcast got a hold of it, Comcast makes a killing handing out "vecks" for free, but sitting in the light show costs you. The light shows are orchestrated by comcast-recruited DJs to do light shows and play with your serotonin, dopamine, and adrenaline levels. People become light junkies The kicker is that the virus has to be activated with a proprietary sequence of light. Meanwhile, guy from failed DARPA project, the first light junky, gets this for free as a side-effect from the DARPA project, but he has to go to his friend for it.
- nitrogen 10y ago
  Very vaguely similar to the novel Terminal Man by Michael Crichton.

woliveirajr 10y ago

> Because the central amygdala is involved in so many different behaviours, she says, future research needs to tease out the precise neuronal circuits involved in hunting. “The central amygdala has been linked to escape and flight — this is completely different from that.” In other words, don't be precise and your soldiers will run away instead of attacking the enemy.

ohyes 10y ago

"First, they infected the mice with a virus that made the neurons in their brains sensitive to blue light." They can do this? This is amazing to me! It also makes me a little afraid that I'll get infected by a virus and mind controlled.

FreeFull 10y ago
You'd still need for someone to cut your skull open to shine the blue light in. At that point, you've got problems either way.
- rudolf0 10y ago
  "First, they infected the mice with a virus that made their amygdala sensitive to augmented optic nerve activity in response to specific pixel patterns."
  - dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago
    This is a rudimentary form of the plot of Serenity (the Firefly movie), if I'm interpreting that correctly. Kingsmen, too.
  - NoGravitas 10y ago
    Do not look back at the image of the Parrot, shatter goggles or no shatter goggles. http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm http://www.infinityplus.co.uk/stories/blit.htm
- ianmcgowan 10y ago
  Not if you can persuade/modify a fungus to do the same thing. This is basically the plot of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Girl_with_All_the_Gifts https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Girl_with_All_the_Gifts
Karunamon 10y ago
If you want some real nightmare fuel, imagine a fungus that gets into your body, drives you to a high place, destroys your motor control nerves so you're stuck in place, and then fatally bursts out a fruiting body from the back of your head, spreading more spores? Be glad you're not an ant :) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ophiocordyceps_unilateralis

dragontamer 10y ago

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this sounds like the plot of "Kingsman" Warning violent Movie ahead: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25683IE5v9g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=25683IE5v9g

iamdave 10y ago

http://data.whicdn.com/images/87516929/large.gif http://data.whicdn.com/images/87516929/large.gif I wish I had never read that, damn nature, you scary.

pc86 10y ago
Please do not post image memes on HN.
- iamdave 10y ago
  Oh sorry, I must have missed the part in the comments guidelines that says comments must be entirely serious in nature and having a giggle is verboten. May I suggest lightenUp.app? p.s. it's not a meme, it's gif.
  - thatguy0900 10y ago
    If you like how this forum is different then other forums, then we shouldn't try to bring the culture from other forums here.
    - iamdave 10y ago
      I enjoy the content sure, but I didn't realize a harmless gif in reaction to an admittedly scary virus that explodes insects would draw such reactions. I'll just log off for the day and go enjoy Friday on those other forums.
      - nv-vn 10y ago
        Heh, I feel that same way every time I experience something like this on here. People get way too worked up over things that don't matter at all. For some reason I keep coming back here though...
- photogrammetry 10y ago
  Were you triggered?

derefr 10y ago

If anyone is wondering, the lasers aren't an essential element of what's going on here; the point is that targeted electrical stimulation to a certain area of the brain causes this behaviour. With areas on the brain surface, you could just use a wire for this. For areas deeper in the brain, however, you can't exactly feed a wire in there without destroying things, so instead, you use optogenetics: you get a virus to be the "end" of the wire (finding the right area of the brain to live in, and then converting light pulses into electrical pulses) and then you point a laser at the brain and the viruses "go off" in response. The virus is essentially just serving as one half of an electrical optoisolator. As an added benefit for the optogenetic approach, the electrical pulses released by the viruses are each local to their host cells, so they won't have nearly as much "bleed-over" into surrounding tissue as you'd see with one strong pulse from a wire.

Balgair 10y ago
Thats pretty much right, but it's not the viruses that are interacting with the light. The virus is injected, and then infects cells. It re-writes their DNA, like a lot of viruses we are all made sick by, and inserts a DNA code into the cell. In wild viruses, that DNA code would make other viruses and start the process of infection all over again. Here, that DNA code is for a protein called an 'opsin'. Just like in your retina and eyes, this opsin protein is affect by light of certain colors. In the case of exciting the nerve cell to 'fire' (the other general case is inhibiting the cell from 'firing') the opsin protein is in the cell wall and opens up the cell to the extra-cellular environment. Similar to osmosis, this causes some of the ions in the fluids (Sodium, Potassium, Calcium, etc) to rush in or out of the cell. The specifics depend a lot on the particular cell, but mostly on the relative concentration of the ions in the cell and in the extracellular fluids. Shine light, the protein (delivered via viral infection) opens, ions rush in/out, the cell 'fires'. Also, in longer axons like in the eye or the spine, you do have cross talk like with copper wires. BUT only if those axons are un-myelinated. That is bio-talk for cells that wrap around the axons of nerve cells that are very fatty in composition. Basically, myelin is like the plastic insulation you have on copper wire. They do a lot of other things too, but in the spine and eye, they act as isolators for the nerves that have to go a long distance. When that myelin 'goes wrong', you can get disorders like ALS and such. Here are some sources to learn more about optogentics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optogenetics https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optogenetics https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb07TLkJ3Ww https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nb07TLkJ3Ww

daxfohl 10y ago

All I ask for is sharks with frickin' laser beams attached to their heads.

Zorlag 10y ago

Now that is a headline!

FrancoDiaz 10y ago

That's awesome. Laser-activated, killer mice (along with sharks with lasers) need to be in the next Austin Powers movie.