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More and more systemd is becoming symptomatic of deeper divide within the Linux "community". The split being between those that embraced Linux for being a free

More and more systemd is becoming symptomatic of deeper divide within the Linux "community". The split being between those that embraced Linux for being a free, in both senses, _nix unburdened by AT&T and running on commodity hardware, and those that got to know it after the dot-com crash as the L in LAMP. The former cares for Linux as a _nix, the latter could not care less about _nix and may see it as a vestigial appendage that should have been amputated long ago.

AnonymousPlanet 10y ago
I'm not so sure if it really has that much to do with heritage. A lot of us like the design principles you can see in Unix and that are pretty much absent in systems like Windows NT. They very much reflect the conclusions I came to after over fifteen years of building and debugging systems. But, yes, I have the impression that a lot of Linux users would just as gladly use a modern BeOS or a ReactOS, regardless of the underlying design. And a lot of systemd criticism comes from people who are just averse to any kind of change and maybe long for the bygone days of HP-UX and Irix.
- digi_owl 10y ago
  There is change and there is change.
vidarh 10y ago
No, it's symptomatic of most of the Linux community having embraced systemd, and the holdouts being few and far between.
teddyh 10y ago
Let me just say that I disagree: I am squarely in the former camp – I started with SunOS 4 in 1992, learned to use the Internet before the WWW, and am a long-time GNU advocate, and I am also a professional system administrator. I like systemd just fine. In fact, I started using it at home and at work just as soon as the package became available in Debian 7 (wheezy). I think, however, that you have a point in that some people ascribe some mystical properties to the design of _nix and _nix-like systems. I have never done this, perhaps because I remember the early days of OS/platform wars (Amiga or Atari? PC or console? Unix or VMS?), first on BBSes, then on Usenet. I also, early on, read the Unix-Haters Handbook, and I found it enlightening, even though it is not always spot-on. I leave all die-hard advocates with this quote: “All Software Sucks, All Hardware Sucks” (http://www.absurdnotions.org/an20010622.gif http://www.absurdnotions.org/an20010622.gif) (Source: (http://www.absurdnotions.org/page75.html http://www.absurdnotions.org/page75.html). Start of storyline: (http://www.absurdnotions.org/page74.html) http://www.absurdnotions.org/page74.html))

AnonymousPlanet 10y ago

I'm not so sure if it really has that much to do with heritage. A lot of us like the design principles you can see in Unix and that are pretty much absent in systems like Windows NT. They very much reflect the conclusions I came to after over fifteen years of building and debugging systems. But, yes, I have the impression that a lot of Linux users would just as gladly use a modern BeOS or a ReactOS, regardless of the underlying design. And a lot of systemd criticism comes from people who are just averse to any kind of change and maybe long for the bygone days of HP-UX and Irix.

digi_owl 10y ago
There is change and there is change.

vidarh 10y ago

No, it's symptomatic of most of the Linux community having embraced systemd, and the holdouts being few and far between.

teddyh 10y ago

Let me just say that I disagree: I am squarely in the former camp – I started with SunOS 4 in 1992, learned to use the Internet before the WWW, and am a long-time GNU advocate, and I am also a professional system administrator. I like systemd just fine. In fact, I started using it at home and at work just as soon as the package became available in Debian 7 (wheezy). I think, however, that you have a point in that some people ascribe some mystical properties to the design of _nix and _nix-like systems. I have never done this, perhaps because I remember the early days of OS/platform wars (Amiga or Atari? PC or console? Unix or VMS?), first on BBSes, then on Usenet. I also, early on, read the Unix-Haters Handbook, and I found it enlightening, even though it is not always spot-on. I leave all die-hard advocates with this quote: “All Software Sucks, All Hardware Sucks” (http://www.absurdnotions.org/an20010622.gif http://www.absurdnotions.org/an20010622.gif) (Source: (http://www.absurdnotions.org/page75.html http://www.absurdnotions.org/page75.html). Start of storyline: (http://www.absurdnotions.org/page74.html) http://www.absurdnotions.org/page74.html))