6 ms·

People don't want to just listen to music, they want to interact with it, own physical objects, and curate their own collection of music. The dominance of digit

by zo7 10y ago

People don't want to just listen to music, they want to interact with it, own physical objects, and curate their own collection of music. The dominance of digital and streaming has left a gaping void in this, and this is a reason why vinyl has taken off – you can hold it, you have to interact with it to listen to it, it arguably sounds better, you have your own little art collection, and you have to put in much more effort to find and obtain it. CDs offer a similar experience, but it's too similar to digital to be worthwhile, so cassettes have taken off because it's a cheap and easy way for labels and artists to sell something physical. It sounds bad, but it's interesting to listen to and if you want to listen to a higher quality version you can find it online. (and if you can't, the choice of tape as a medium was intentional by the artist) It's weird to me whenever the move towards analog is written off as some vapid millennial/hipster trend. The dominance of digital and streaming services has stolen this experience from us, and we are fighting to get it back.

taeric 10y ago
Some people want this. There is clearly a large market that doesn't care and just wants to listen to some music. There is probably as large of a market that just wants background noise. Even in this... you are probably talking about a ridiculously small market. And the audio person in me cringes. At least records were high quality. Tapes are just terrible.
- zo7 10y ago
  Oh of course, it's really just limited to just people who actively seek out music, go to local/DIY events and want to support independent artists/labels. The larger market that just wants to listen has their needs more than met at this point. (arguably at the former group's expense)
- Fnoord 10y ago
  >> they want to interact with it, own physical objects, and curate their own collection of music. > Some people want this. Yep, thanks for making that point. > Even in this... you are probably talking about a ridiculously small market. A minority are physical collectors. I'm not sure how small or large it is though, but I'm sure its a minority. Owning a copy doesn't mean you own the music anyway. Also of importance is that people who listen to music on the move (during sports or workout) really don't want to mix music. Streaming audio is a compromise between full on DJing and listening to radio in the sense that the listener decides what he or she is going to listen to. So they may very well make their own playlists. But one can also pick a pre-made playlist which makes it more akin to FM radio (and you won't make your playlist during sports / workout either). The difference is the far more wide choice.
maxxxxx 10y ago
Good point. That's probably like driving stick shift vs. automatic. Automatic may better but stick shift "feels" better. I have noticed that with writing software. I sometimes think it would be really nice to have something tangible you can touch as a result of my work.
- taeric 10y ago
  Is automatic better nowdays? I thought the physics sided on manual. Granted, I also thought it was ultimately a wash.
  - SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
    I have a Chevy Volt. No transmission whatsoever. That's even better. :)
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    I wouldn't call it better (unless you have a Ferrari or Porsche double clutch gearbox) but in traffic like LA it's certainly a relief. But there is no fun in it.
    - taeric 10y ago
      I meant better in terms of efficiency. But yeah, stop and go is easier in automatic. Though, I don't find it that bad unless there are hills involved. Edit:. And no, I didn't have anything to back up the claim. Just echoing what I used to hear a lot.
  - lb1lf 10y ago
    I suspect most of the reason automatics got a bad rap efficiency-wise is the torque converter, which is inherently lossy and absent on manuals. However, today's autos have typically 8 or 9 gears, allowing the gearbox to present a near ideal load for the engine at all times; I suspect they now tie or even win with manuals efficiency-wise. Also, autos are said to be more reliable - primarily, I suspect, as they are immune to much of the abuse a driver can expose a manual to.
SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
>The dominance of digital and streaming services has stolen this experience from us, and we are fighting to get it back. I used to collect books. It was a big part of my life. Now I pretty much only buy books on Kindle. I almost sort-of miss buying books. But only in theory. In practice I much prefer having my current library in my pocket at all times. Same with music. I have my entire library on my hard drive, and I can copy large portions of it onto my phone and/or the USB flash drive I keep in my pocket. I don't touch the physical CDs unless I think a rip didn't work right, and then only long enough to re-rip the music. When I buy new music I don't even get physical CDs any more. Mix tapes? I could potentially just stick that same USB drive into a friend's computer and copy all the music he thinks I might want to try out. Many hours of music, in a few seconds of transfer. Try that on tapes. Not that I'd do that, of course, since it would be illegal, and I certainly wouldn't post about doing illegal things on HN. :P Playlists also do exist, and I use them. I do miss the ability to transfer a playlist to someone else -- they don't transfer very well, given their dependency on paths to the music -- but not enough to wish for tapes back into my life. Besides, when I make a playlist today, my "mix" often has many hours of music in it; I've had playlists with over 40 hours of music, and I enjoy hitting "shuffle" and listening to all the songs in a different order. But the point is, while I believe you that "people" want do interact with physical objects, I think it is a minority of people who want that. A very small minority. Because the digital experience is just strictly better. And most people, especially people who've been stuck using tapes because they were the only option at the time, realize that tapes in fact suck.
- guitarbill 10y ago
  > In practice I much prefer having my current library in my pocket at all times. This. Once I got a Kindle, I actually read more. Because you know it's convenient and has a build in light. Spotify let's you publish/share playlists, so that's also sorted. The only issue I have is that you don't really own anything. I just de-DRM Kindle books and assume that the availability of songs I like to listen to will increase in the future because royalties will cost less for older songs. Who knows what I'll be listening to in 10 years time? I'd also say not having a collection of <x> as a proxy for <personality trait y> has made my house more welcoming, less pretentious and makes moving easy. Not saying that you can't have a collection for pure enjoyment, or that everybody who has one is compensating, but if you think your collections "says something about you", it probably does but not in the way you want.
everyone 10y ago
"you have your own little art collection" Yeah, see its all nice if its little. I had 1000's of cds, carting them around every time one moves apartment is a massive pain in the ass. Also making sure that the cds are in the right boxes, that someone hasnt borrowed one or misplaced it. Also finding the album your looking for. I still have the cds in storage. I also still curate my music collection, its a big folder now. I have a copy of it on my phone on a 256Gb micro sd card, and a couple of backups. I've transitioned through tapes, cds, minidiscs and digital. Digital is better in so many ways. Being able to have all my music with me to choose from all the time is amazing, up until not too long ago I used to always have a bag of about 30 minidiscs with me. Another great thing is how universal digital is, I can take audio from any source and convert it to fit into my digial collection, this is factastic if youre djing, you can mix in old stuff from the radio, and old weird vinyl recording, samples from tv shows whatever! I can understand people who grew up with digital wanting to mess around with something different and weird, but if they're serious about music and start amassing a collection then the massive benefits of digital become obvious. additional: I do have a bit of vinyl too, that I sometimes use. But I dont bother djing with it anymore. It is nice to put on a record when u have guests or something.

by zo7 10y ago

taeric 10y ago

Some people want this. There is clearly a large market that doesn't care and just wants to listen to some music. There is probably as large of a market that just wants background noise. Even in this... you are probably talking about a ridiculously small market. And the audio person in me cringes. At least records were high quality. Tapes are just terrible.

zo7 10y ago
Oh of course, it's really just limited to just people who actively seek out music, go to local/DIY events and want to support independent artists/labels. The larger market that just wants to listen has their needs more than met at this point. (arguably at the former group's expense)
Fnoord 10y ago
>> they want to interact with it, own physical objects, and curate their own collection of music. > Some people want this. Yep, thanks for making that point. > Even in this... you are probably talking about a ridiculously small market. A minority are physical collectors. I'm not sure how small or large it is though, but I'm sure its a minority. Owning a copy doesn't mean you own the music anyway. Also of importance is that people who listen to music on the move (during sports or workout) really don't want to mix music. Streaming audio is a compromise between full on DJing and listening to radio in the sense that the listener decides what he or she is going to listen to. So they may very well make their own playlists. But one can also pick a pre-made playlist which makes it more akin to FM radio (and you won't make your playlist during sports / workout either). The difference is the far more wide choice.

maxxxxx 10y ago

Good point. That's probably like driving stick shift vs. automatic. Automatic may better but stick shift "feels" better. I have noticed that with writing software. I sometimes think it would be really nice to have something tangible you can touch as a result of my work.

taeric 10y ago
Is automatic better nowdays? I thought the physics sided on manual. Granted, I also thought it was ultimately a wash.
- SomeCallMeTim 10y ago
  I have a Chevy Volt. No transmission whatsoever. That's even better. :)
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  I wouldn't call it better (unless you have a Ferrari or Porsche double clutch gearbox) but in traffic like LA it's certainly a relief. But there is no fun in it.
  - taeric 10y ago
    I meant better in terms of efficiency. But yeah, stop and go is easier in automatic. Though, I don't find it that bad unless there are hills involved. Edit:. And no, I didn't have anything to back up the claim. Just echoing what I used to hear a lot.
- lb1lf 10y ago
  I suspect most of the reason automatics got a bad rap efficiency-wise is the torque converter, which is inherently lossy and absent on manuals. However, today's autos have typically 8 or 9 gears, allowing the gearbox to present a near ideal load for the engine at all times; I suspect they now tie or even win with manuals efficiency-wise. Also, autos are said to be more reliable - primarily, I suspect, as they are immune to much of the abuse a driver can expose a manual to.

SomeCallMeTim 10y ago

>The dominance of digital and streaming services has stolen this experience from us, and we are fighting to get it back. I used to collect books. It was a big part of my life. Now I pretty much only buy books on Kindle. I almost sort-of miss buying books. But only in theory. In practice I much prefer having my current library in my pocket at all times. Same with music. I have my entire library on my hard drive, and I can copy large portions of it onto my phone and/or the USB flash drive I keep in my pocket. I don't touch the physical CDs unless I think a rip didn't work right, and then only long enough to re-rip the music. When I buy new music I don't even get physical CDs any more. Mix tapes? I could potentially just stick that same USB drive into a friend's computer and copy all the music he thinks I might want to try out. Many hours of music, in a few seconds of transfer. Try that on tapes. Not that I'd do that, of course, since it would be illegal, and I certainly wouldn't post about doing illegal things on HN. :P Playlists also do exist, and I use them. I do miss the ability to transfer a playlist to someone else -- they don't transfer very well, given their dependency on paths to the music -- but not enough to wish for tapes back into my life. Besides, when I make a playlist today, my "mix" often has many hours of music in it; I've had playlists with over 40 hours of music, and I enjoy hitting "shuffle" and listening to all the songs in a different order. But the point is, while I believe you that "people" want do interact with physical objects, I think it is a minority of people who want that. A very small minority. Because the digital experience is just strictly better. And most people, especially people who've been stuck using tapes because they were the only option at the time, realize that tapes in fact suck.

guitarbill 10y ago
> In practice I much prefer having my current library in my pocket at all times. This. Once I got a Kindle, I actually read more. Because you know it's convenient and has a build in light. Spotify let's you publish/share playlists, so that's also sorted. The only issue I have is that you don't really own anything. I just de-DRM Kindle books and assume that the availability of songs I like to listen to will increase in the future because royalties will cost less for older songs. Who knows what I'll be listening to in 10 years time? I'd also say not having a collection of <x> as a proxy for <personality trait y> has made my house more welcoming, less pretentious and makes moving easy. Not saying that you can't have a collection for pure enjoyment, or that everybody who has one is compensating, but if you think your collections "says something about you", it probably does but not in the way you want.

everyone 10y ago

"you have your own little art collection" Yeah, see its all nice if its little. I had 1000's of cds, carting them around every time one moves apartment is a massive pain in the ass. Also making sure that the cds are in the right boxes, that someone hasnt borrowed one or misplaced it. Also finding the album your looking for. I still have the cds in storage. I also still curate my music collection, its a big folder now. I have a copy of it on my phone on a 256Gb micro sd card, and a couple of backups. I've transitioned through tapes, cds, minidiscs and digital. Digital is better in so many ways. Being able to have all my music with me to choose from all the time is amazing, up until not too long ago I used to always have a bag of about 30 minidiscs with me. Another great thing is how universal digital is, I can take audio from any source and convert it to fit into my digial collection, this is factastic if youre djing, you can mix in old stuff from the radio, and old weird vinyl recording, samples from tv shows whatever! I can understand people who grew up with digital wanting to mess around with something different and weird, but if they're serious about music and start amassing a collection then the massive benefits of digital become obvious. additional: I do have a bit of vinyl too, that I sometimes use. But I dont bother djing with it anymore. It is nice to put on a record when u have guests or something.