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> Rory Sutherland is vice-chairman of Ogilvy Group UK I wonder if the OP observations of "(box-ticking, arse-covering, fatuous self-exculpating emails, the col

by musesum 10y ago

> Rory Sutherland is vice-chairman of Ogilvy Group UK I wonder if the OP observations of "(box-ticking, arse-covering, fatuous self-exculpating emails, the collection of ever more stupid metrics)" occurs more often in the advertising business? I searched for a chart that broke down stupid metrics by industry, but the closest one I could find is this: http://www.infosecisland.com/uploads/remoteimg/aa043ae12a09714b10a9f400d16aba67.jpg http://www.infosecisland.com/uploads/remoteimg/aa043ae12a097...

Bartweiss 10y ago
I mean, advertising is a bit infamous for this. Outside of immediate-action advertising ("Want to buy this?" and "Click here"), it's very hard to prove the effects of a given program. Sales boosters like coupons are already tricky - did they create new buyers, reengage existing buyers, or do customers just hold off on buying until there's a discount? And brand awareness ads are even harder - did your Toyota add two years ago drive a sale today? You can't even survey for that, since in theory it works on people who don't remember it consciously. So I have a dark suspicion that advertising is more full of stupid metrics than most roles, simply because real analytics are harder to produce.
- gertef 10y ago
  The most important problem with advertising is that it is competive waste: If firms A and B can create a product a cost $X that sells for $X+$Y firm B can create the same product for $X, then A and B will waste $Y on advertising in an attempt to win consumers for each other, for no benefit to anyone (except in any artistic/entertainment value in the advertising, and the possibly useful wealth-redistribution from firm's owners to advertising employees).
  - deodorel 10y ago
    I remember reading an article on marginal revolution about how wasteful are charities: The paying customers are scarce and the competition is so fierce that a big sum of the money you donate goes on advertising to gain new donors. In the worst cases most of the money goes into that ...
    - Bartweiss 10y ago
      This is definitely a huge problem, especially with socially-competitive charities. Things like breast cancer awareness and helping the local needy around Christmas are so popular that they're locked into ugly advertising struggles. And if people don't do their homework, the most efficient fundraiser will be the charity that spends no money on the cause (or just enough to stay exempt). This seems like a good time to plug Givewelll. Their entire goal is quantifying the good done by charities and promoting the most efficient. They compare globally, but even if you want to give to something specific like animal welfare or local homelessness, they have some good efficiency tips. http://www.givewell.org/ http://www.givewell.org/
coupdejarnac 10y ago
In the seven years I worked as a software/electrical engineer at Big Company, writing lots of inane CYA emails was the norm. Everybody wanted to protect their tiny fiefdoms... Justing thinking about being in that environment raises my blood pressure.
galdosdi 10y ago
Can confirm it happens in IT and financial also
fimbaz 10y ago
"Mister Squishy" by David Foster Wallace

by musesum 10y ago

Bartweiss 10y ago

I mean, advertising is a bit infamous for this. Outside of immediate-action advertising ("Want to buy this?" and "Click here"), it's very hard to prove the effects of a given program. Sales boosters like coupons are already tricky - did they create new buyers, reengage existing buyers, or do customers just hold off on buying until there's a discount? And brand awareness ads are even harder - did your Toyota add two years ago drive a sale today? You can't even survey for that, since in theory it works on people who don't remember it consciously. So I have a dark suspicion that advertising is more full of stupid metrics than most roles, simply because real analytics are harder to produce.

gertef 10y ago
The most important problem with advertising is that it is competive waste: If firms A and B can create a product a cost $X that sells for $X+$Y firm B can create the same product for $X, then A and B will waste $Y on advertising in an attempt to win consumers for each other, for no benefit to anyone (except in any artistic/entertainment value in the advertising, and the possibly useful wealth-redistribution from firm's owners to advertising employees).
- deodorel 10y ago
  I remember reading an article on marginal revolution about how wasteful are charities: The paying customers are scarce and the competition is so fierce that a big sum of the money you donate goes on advertising to gain new donors. In the worst cases most of the money goes into that ...
  - Bartweiss 10y ago
    This is definitely a huge problem, especially with socially-competitive charities. Things like breast cancer awareness and helping the local needy around Christmas are so popular that they're locked into ugly advertising struggles. And if people don't do their homework, the most efficient fundraiser will be the charity that spends no money on the cause (or just enough to stay exempt). This seems like a good time to plug Givewelll. Their entire goal is quantifying the good done by charities and promoting the most efficient. They compare globally, but even if you want to give to something specific like animal welfare or local homelessness, they have some good efficiency tips. http://www.givewell.org/ http://www.givewell.org/

coupdejarnac 10y ago

In the seven years I worked as a software/electrical engineer at Big Company, writing lots of inane CYA emails was the norm. Everybody wanted to protect their tiny fiefdoms... Justing thinking about being in that environment raises my blood pressure.

galdosdi 10y ago

Can confirm it happens in IT and financial also

fimbaz 10y ago

"Mister Squishy" by David Foster Wallace