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Oh give me a break, "we all" are not moving away from Apple. People are pissed off, and rightly so. But no one is running out and ditching all their hardware. W

Oh give me a break, "we all" are not moving away from Apple. People are pissed off, and rightly so. But no one is running out and ditching all their hardware. We're all sitting around to see what 2017 brings for changes, and if there isn't any significant, we're still going to be buying the new whatever there is. We're after the OS, that's not going to change.

heavymark 10y ago
Exactly. I imagine people are moving towards Apple more than they ever have. Though the author neglects to provide any actual data proving either way and rather assumes all share their narrow view based on headlines. Apple doesn't update Mac hardware and software for developers in the way have in the past, but developers are small subset of customers so make of course sense they should be focusing on their main massive customer base. Developers assume MBP to mean meant for only Pro users, but imagine (Without data), that even most Pro customers are not developers/creatives, and rather normal consumers who want the best or bigger screens. As a developer and designer, I would love if Apple were to focus more on our needs, but more importantly, I want them to do what's best for their business so that will be able to continue to produce solid products as no other option comes close to what the Apple Ecosphere can offer currently in my opinion, Linux and Google included. But we all have our own needs some for those that don't like Apple's direction, like the author, glad they are finding other options they find more suitable.
dangerboysteve 10y ago
Yes and iPhone market share just went up 6% in the US. Everyone does not equal a few pissed off developers.
- akitaonrails 10y ago
  It's not that we are all "pissed", it's not the tone of the article. I wrote it because that's what I see happening. And I will be the first to be proven wrong. But right now, it's not that Apple products are "bad", it's more like everybody else caught up while they're in standstill. That's the gist of the article.
sjtgraham 10y ago
Last year I switched to Linux after 12 years of Mac, and to Android after using iOS since the first iPhone. Quite a few of my peers have done the same already, and a lot of them are looking at their options and refusing to upgrade their Apple hardware.
- overcast 10y ago
  I'm proud of you, but I've played with Linux on the desktop for the last nineteen years, in various flavors. It's just never going to compete with the MacOS experience. It will never have the nice applications, the polished interface, the tight integration with my iphone/ipad. Great server OS, poor desktop.
  - sjtgraham 10y ago
    The "MacOS experience" has been in steady decline since Snow Leopard, while Linux on the desktop has come a long way and continues to get better. I'm using elementaryOS, which despite it missing a few things (in fairness it's currently v0.4), I find is a workable macOS replacement. Apple should bring back Scott Forstall as CEO, leaving Cook to do what he does best, i.e. supply chain management.
    - overcast 10y ago
      You didn't answer anything I asked, other than anecdotally saying A is better than B, just because.
      - reitanqild 10y ago
        You didn't answer anything I asked, Did you ask anything? I read over the thread and only saw statements. other than anecdotally saying A is better than B, just because. This could have been a reply to your posts actually.
        overcast 10y ago
akitaonrails 10y ago
I knew the title itself was going to be both good and bad for my intentions, but as I responded in another thread down below, the point of the article is not to be a statistical report. It's a reflection on history, decades-long, using Apple as the protagonist. I am a very long time Apple fan, having used everything they released. And I am not 'frustrated' by recent releases. I am a technologist, I like technology, and I will use whatever is the best for now and the future. Which is why I chose Apple years ago. And which is why I am no longer enthusiastic by its future roadmap.
whositis 10y ago
There has been a definite move. People are buying things like Dell XPS laptops instead of macbooks - you get far faster hardware, and a better development environment. I moved at the end of last year. I sometimes have to hop back on my macbook and it pains me when I do so - minutes of watching a rainbow spinner. Compiling things takes forever. The magsafe adapter is awful (Been through so many magsafe adapters, they all fail in exactly the same way). The macbook was the ultimate developers laptop for a good few years there. Now it's just - I don't know - something for hipsters who think removing things makes it better? It's underpowered, overpriced, and the OS seems slower and more clunky than ever.
- overcast 10y ago
  Sorry, tell me about the better development environment. Especially if one needs xCode? What are you getting that exists on there, that doesn't exist on MacOS?
  - akitaonrails 10y ago
    That's one of the points. Back then, using Xcode and develop for iOS were bonuses, yet another reason to buy a Mac. These days, it feels more like I am obligated to buy a Mac if I want to develop for iOS. Not the same pleasure it once was.
  - sfifs 10y ago
    Isn't XCode a completely artificial barrier? In Linux and Windows, it's always possible to compile for any platform, at the worst using a VM Essentially Apple is exploiting its developer community by decreeing that you must use a Mac to develop for iOS giving it guaranteed sales.
- Joeri 10y ago
  How is the dell xps faster than the macbook pro? In what way is the windows dev experience superior to the mac dev experience? There's plenty of actual things to blame apple for without inventing new ones. The issue with the new mbp is not performance.
teilo 10y ago
My company runs 350+ Macs. Years ago, we abandoned Macs in our datacenter when Apple neutered OS X Server and gave us no alternative. Windows is now king there. Now we are seriously considering abandoning Mac for, of all things, our Prepress department. Why? Because for the last three years, macOS has been become almost unusable with network shares with a large number of files (anything more than a few thousand). Think minutes, at times, to open an f-ing folder. It is a known bug. It has been around since 10.9. Apple has not even acknowledged the problem. What takes milliseconds on Windows can take anywhere from 30 seconds to two minutes on a Mac. The problem exists regardless of share type. SMB and AFP are equally bad. We are as core a user as it gets. Prepress. Graphic arts. And Apple is unable to make a Mac work efficiently on something so obscure as a file share. They have made it quite clear that they do not care about power users like us, and they are never going to care again. We have work to do. Browsing a network file system is a basic service. It should not be difficult. It should not, as it currently is for us (and an untold number of others), cut our productivity by half because our users spend so much time just trying to open a file.
- tmikaeld 10y ago
  We found that NFS did not have this bug and file lists open instantly, maybe a solution to the issue?
  - teilo 10y ago
    We had serious problems getting NFS to work. Major permissions issues all around.
- overcast 10y ago
  A sizable corporate environment is far different than this discussion pertains to. My company for 3000+ is all windows based, for obvious reasons. I still use Mac as my primary dev machine, and Windows, and Linux, and Freebsd, and everything else.
  - BJanecke 10y ago
    > "My company for 3000+ is all windows based, for obvious reasons" What so you can lock up your co-workers with Citrix and Cisco tools made to track and neuter freedoms? So you can pay consultants silly amounts of money to hire other consultants to set up AD policies to satisfy your executives who "Talked to "BigCorp's" CTO and they use Citrix for VPN because it's "secure" so we should too". Or so you can shoehorn solutions like Lync(Skype4B) down peoples throats because theoretically it "Checks all the right boxes to keep management happy and get us that ISO certificate." I'm not saying this is your fault, or trying to be facetious, I'm actually trying to empathise with you but talking/writing/thinking about the clusterbork that is Enterprise windows deployments is sickening.

heavymark 10y ago

Exactly. I imagine people are moving towards Apple more than they ever have. Though the author neglects to provide any actual data proving either way and rather assumes all share their narrow view based on headlines. Apple doesn't update Mac hardware and software for developers in the way have in the past, but developers are small subset of customers so make of course sense they should be focusing on their main massive customer base. Developers assume MBP to mean meant for only Pro users, but imagine (Without data), that even most Pro customers are not developers/creatives, and rather normal consumers who want the best or bigger screens. As a developer and designer, I would love if Apple were to focus more on our needs, but more importantly, I want them to do what's best for their business so that will be able to continue to produce solid products as no other option comes close to what the Apple Ecosphere can offer currently in my opinion, Linux and Google included. But we all have our own needs some for those that don't like Apple's direction, like the author, glad they are finding other options they find more suitable.

dangerboysteve 10y ago

Yes and iPhone market share just went up 6% in the US. Everyone does not equal a few pissed off developers.

akitaonrails 10y ago
It's not that we are all "pissed", it's not the tone of the article. I wrote it because that's what I see happening. And I will be the first to be proven wrong. But right now, it's not that Apple products are "bad", it's more like everybody else caught up while they're in standstill. That's the gist of the article.

sjtgraham 10y ago

Last year I switched to Linux after 12 years of Mac, and to Android after using iOS since the first iPhone. Quite a few of my peers have done the same already, and a lot of them are looking at their options and refusing to upgrade their Apple hardware.

overcast 10y ago
I'm proud of you, but I've played with Linux on the desktop for the last nineteen years, in various flavors. It's just never going to compete with the MacOS experience. It will never have the nice applications, the polished interface, the tight integration with my iphone/ipad. Great server OS, poor desktop.
- sjtgraham 10y ago
  The "MacOS experience" has been in steady decline since Snow Leopard, while Linux on the desktop has come a long way and continues to get better. I'm using elementaryOS, which despite it missing a few things (in fairness it's currently v0.4), I find is a workable macOS replacement. Apple should bring back Scott Forstall as CEO, leaving Cook to do what he does best, i.e. supply chain management.
  - overcast 10y ago
    You didn't answer anything I asked, other than anecdotally saying A is better than B, just because.
    - reitanqild 10y ago
      You didn't answer anything I asked, Did you ask anything? I read over the thread and only saw statements. other than anecdotally saying A is better than B, just because. This could have been a reply to your posts actually.
      - overcast 10y ago

akitaonrails 10y ago

I knew the title itself was going to be both good and bad for my intentions, but as I responded in another thread down below, the point of the article is not to be a statistical report. It's a reflection on history, decades-long, using Apple as the protagonist. I am a very long time Apple fan, having used everything they released. And I am not 'frustrated' by recent releases. I am a technologist, I like technology, and I will use whatever is the best for now and the future. Which is why I chose Apple years ago. And which is why I am no longer enthusiastic by its future roadmap.

whositis 10y ago

There has been a definite move. People are buying things like Dell XPS laptops instead of macbooks - you get far faster hardware, and a better development environment. I moved at the end of last year. I sometimes have to hop back on my macbook and it pains me when I do so - minutes of watching a rainbow spinner. Compiling things takes forever. The magsafe adapter is awful (Been through so many magsafe adapters, they all fail in exactly the same way). The macbook was the ultimate developers laptop for a good few years there. Now it's just - I don't know - something for hipsters who think removing things makes it better? It's underpowered, overpriced, and the OS seems slower and more clunky than ever.

overcast 10y ago
Sorry, tell me about the better development environment. Especially if one needs xCode? What are you getting that exists on there, that doesn't exist on MacOS?
- akitaonrails 10y ago
  That's one of the points. Back then, using Xcode and develop for iOS were bonuses, yet another reason to buy a Mac. These days, it feels more like I am obligated to buy a Mac if I want to develop for iOS. Not the same pleasure it once was.
- sfifs 10y ago
  Isn't XCode a completely artificial barrier? In Linux and Windows, it's always possible to compile for any platform, at the worst using a VM Essentially Apple is exploiting its developer community by decreeing that you must use a Mac to develop for iOS giving it guaranteed sales.
Joeri 10y ago
How is the dell xps faster than the macbook pro? In what way is the windows dev experience superior to the mac dev experience? There's plenty of actual things to blame apple for without inventing new ones. The issue with the new mbp is not performance.

teilo 10y ago

My company runs 350+ Macs. Years ago, we abandoned Macs in our datacenter when Apple neutered OS X Server and gave us no alternative. Windows is now king there. Now we are seriously considering abandoning Mac for, of all things, our Prepress department. Why? Because for the last three years, macOS has been become almost unusable with network shares with a large number of files (anything more than a few thousand). Think minutes, at times, to open an f-ing folder. It is a known bug. It has been around since 10.9. Apple has not even acknowledged the problem. What takes milliseconds on Windows can take anywhere from 30 seconds to two minutes on a Mac. The problem exists regardless of share type. SMB and AFP are equally bad. We are as core a user as it gets. Prepress. Graphic arts. And Apple is unable to make a Mac work efficiently on something so obscure as a file share. They have made it quite clear that they do not care about power users like us, and they are never going to care again. We have work to do. Browsing a network file system is a basic service. It should not be difficult. It should not, as it currently is for us (and an untold number of others), cut our productivity by half because our users spend so much time just trying to open a file.

tmikaeld 10y ago
We found that NFS did not have this bug and file lists open instantly, maybe a solution to the issue?
- teilo 10y ago
  We had serious problems getting NFS to work. Major permissions issues all around.
overcast 10y ago
A sizable corporate environment is far different than this discussion pertains to. My company for 3000+ is all windows based, for obvious reasons. I still use Mac as my primary dev machine, and Windows, and Linux, and Freebsd, and everything else.
- BJanecke 10y ago
  > "My company for 3000+ is all windows based, for obvious reasons" What so you can lock up your co-workers with Citrix and Cisco tools made to track and neuter freedoms? So you can pay consultants silly amounts of money to hire other consultants to set up AD policies to satisfy your executives who "Talked to "BigCorp's" CTO and they use Citrix for VPN because it's "secure" so we should too". Or so you can shoehorn solutions like Lync(Skype4B) down peoples throats because theoretically it "Checks all the right boxes to keep management happy and get us that ISO certificate." I'm not saying this is your fault, or trying to be facetious, I'm actually trying to empathise with you but talking/writing/thinking about the clusterbork that is Enterprise windows deployments is sickening.