4 ms·

Then why am I able to purchase a thinkpad with 64gb ram? It doesn't matter, I'm over all the excuses.

by robotjosh 10y ago

Philipp__ 10y ago
Then those Thinkpads are not using ULV CPUs...
- robotjosh 10y ago
  Yes, I've heard all the excuses as to why apple can only offer 16gb. There are xeon laptops with 128gb, so whatever.
  - Philipp__ 10y ago
    But those Xeon CPUs are not ULV. Are you reading what I wrote or you do not know what Ultra Low Voltage CPU mean?! Apple uses exclusively ULV CPUs and Intel will offer first ULV models that extend 16GB limit at the end of 2017. So it's on Intel not Apple. And if Apple do not bump the RAM limit in 2018. then we can throw that on them. Edit: I was wrong about CPU, mixed it with LPDDR, here -> https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/ https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/
    - robotjosh 10y ago
      This IS the complaint- that apple is only selling ultralights now.
    - slantyyz 10y ago
      >> Apple uses exclusively ULV CPUs Wait, what? The 2016 15" Macbook Pro's HQ series CPUs are ULV? I'm pretty sure laptops using 6##0HQ family are 32GB capable. Apple may have a valid reason for not giving 32GB (battery life), but that's a separate issue from whether you can have 32GB with that processor family. --edit: added reference to CPUs used in 2016 macs: http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-2016.html http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-201...
      - Philipp__ 10y ago
        Pardon problem was with low power DDR4 RAM memory that would be required to exceed 16GB limit. Source: https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/ https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/
        slantyyz 10y ago
        Yes, but you have to admit that not using the DDR4 was an iffy, arbitrary judgement call on the part of Apple. Only the 15"s can have 32GB, and I would think a lot of pro users would make the battery life trade off if given the opportunity. The reduced battery life of a 32GB 15" Macbook Pro would not impact a significant number of Mac users -- most normal people wouldn't be willing to pay for the RAM upgrade (Apple RAM is never cheap) and it seems like the majority of people prefer the 13" models anyways, and they are capped at 16GB.
        Philipp__ 10y ago
        I think that the problem lies in Touch Bar. T1 Chip and Touch strip require far more battery power than I thought. So battery is already on the edge of being disappointing if not already that. Plus lack of Non Touch Bar 15" model is also disappointing. But hey, I think that in a next iteration or two those will be great machines. With 32GB options, more battery power, reduced price and better software integration for Touch Bar. So I am patient. I bought maxed out 13" in 2015 and I can't be happier with that machine.
freehunter 10y ago
Because those Thinkpads don't use a single stick of the low-profile RAM that Ultrabooks and MacBooks use. All Intel Ultrabooks have the same issue going on, there's no single low-powered low-profile 32GB RAM on the market. The Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition is the same way. It's not an Apple excuse, don't pretend like it is.
- robotjosh 10y ago
  But you just said the excuse is that apple is only selling ultrabooks now?
  - freehunter 10y ago
    Ultrabooks were created to compete with MacBooks. Apple has only ever sold "ultrabooks", they're just getting slimmer over the years. Like much of the rest of the market. If it was Apple's excuse, you'd need to explain the Surface and XPS 13 and a whole host of other non-Apple machines. Apple doesn't sell desktop replacements like Lenovo does.
    - robotjosh 10y ago
      I love ultrabooks- I was using a eeepc when the 2012 macbook pro came out and took credit for removing the cdrom. The problem with current macbooks is that they moved beyond ultrabooks and became ultralights. Thinner at all costs. Forget about any ram upgrade, forget about any extra cpu core, forget about longer battery life, it is thinner at all costs. I am an apple fan. I had $6000 budgeted towards a new xeon macbook and tb3 external gpu. The release we got just has me scratching my head. Why did they brand this piddly weak macbook as a macbook pro? Where is the external gpu? Where is any other tb3 equipment? Where is a performance macbook? I want apple to succeed, I want apple to have my money, so it makes me sad when they fail like this.
simonh 10y ago
Because those don't use mobility processors and Apple won't make laptops with 2 to 3 hours of battery life or huge batteries. Apple have criteria for what processors they are prepared to use and the ones in the Lenovo don't meet them. If they do meet yours, it's cool, buy the Lenovo.
Joeri 10y ago
The mbp uses the same hq series i7 as those thinkpads, but apple chose soldered lpddr3 RAM, which that i7 supports up to 16 gb, over socketed ddr4, which it supports up to 64 gb. Lpddr3 uses the same amount of power when active, but less in standby and idle. So apple optimized for idle battery life and thinness. I have one of those thinkpads, it's chunky.
- simonh 10y ago
  Interesting and much more accurate/informative than my own posts. Thanks.

Then why am I able to purchase a thinkpad with 64gb ram? It doesn't matter, I'm over all the excuses.

Philipp__ 10y ago

Then those Thinkpads are not using ULV CPUs...

robotjosh 10y ago
Yes, I've heard all the excuses as to why apple can only offer 16gb. There are xeon laptops with 128gb, so whatever.
- Philipp__ 10y ago
  But those Xeon CPUs are not ULV. Are you reading what I wrote or you do not know what Ultra Low Voltage CPU mean?! Apple uses exclusively ULV CPUs and Intel will offer first ULV models that extend 16GB limit at the end of 2017. So it's on Intel not Apple. And if Apple do not bump the RAM limit in 2018. then we can throw that on them. Edit: I was wrong about CPU, mixed it with LPDDR, here -> https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/ https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/
  - robotjosh 10y ago
    This IS the complaint- that apple is only selling ultralights now.
  - slantyyz 10y ago
    >> Apple uses exclusively ULV CPUs Wait, what? The 2016 15" Macbook Pro's HQ series CPUs are ULV? I'm pretty sure laptops using 6##0HQ family are 32GB capable. Apple may have a valid reason for not giving 32GB (battery life), but that's a separate issue from whether you can have 32GB with that processor family. --edit: added reference to CPUs used in 2016 macs: http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-2016.html http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_year/macs-released-in-201...
    - Philipp__ 10y ago
      Pardon problem was with low power DDR4 RAM memory that would be required to exceed 16GB limit. Source: https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/ https://macdaddy.io/macbook-pro-limited-16gb-ram/
      - slantyyz 10y ago
        Yes, but you have to admit that not using the DDR4 was an iffy, arbitrary judgement call on the part of Apple. Only the 15"s can have 32GB, and I would think a lot of pro users would make the battery life trade off if given the opportunity. The reduced battery life of a 32GB 15" Macbook Pro would not impact a significant number of Mac users -- most normal people wouldn't be willing to pay for the RAM upgrade (Apple RAM is never cheap) and it seems like the majority of people prefer the 13" models anyways, and they are capped at 16GB.
        Philipp__ 10y ago
        I think that the problem lies in Touch Bar. T1 Chip and Touch strip require far more battery power than I thought. So battery is already on the edge of being disappointing if not already that. Plus lack of Non Touch Bar 15" model is also disappointing. But hey, I think that in a next iteration or two those will be great machines. With 32GB options, more battery power, reduced price and better software integration for Touch Bar. So I am patient. I bought maxed out 13" in 2015 and I can't be happier with that machine.

freehunter 10y ago

Because those Thinkpads don't use a single stick of the low-profile RAM that Ultrabooks and MacBooks use. All Intel Ultrabooks have the same issue going on, there's no single low-powered low-profile 32GB RAM on the market. The Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition is the same way. It's not an Apple excuse, don't pretend like it is.

robotjosh 10y ago
But you just said the excuse is that apple is only selling ultrabooks now?
- freehunter 10y ago
  Ultrabooks were created to compete with MacBooks. Apple has only ever sold "ultrabooks", they're just getting slimmer over the years. Like much of the rest of the market. If it was Apple's excuse, you'd need to explain the Surface and XPS 13 and a whole host of other non-Apple machines. Apple doesn't sell desktop replacements like Lenovo does.
  - robotjosh 10y ago
    I love ultrabooks- I was using a eeepc when the 2012 macbook pro came out and took credit for removing the cdrom. The problem with current macbooks is that they moved beyond ultrabooks and became ultralights. Thinner at all costs. Forget about any ram upgrade, forget about any extra cpu core, forget about longer battery life, it is thinner at all costs. I am an apple fan. I had $6000 budgeted towards a new xeon macbook and tb3 external gpu. The release we got just has me scratching my head. Why did they brand this piddly weak macbook as a macbook pro? Where is the external gpu? Where is any other tb3 equipment? Where is a performance macbook? I want apple to succeed, I want apple to have my money, so it makes me sad when they fail like this.

simonh 10y ago

Because those don't use mobility processors and Apple won't make laptops with 2 to 3 hours of battery life or huge batteries. Apple have criteria for what processors they are prepared to use and the ones in the Lenovo don't meet them. If they do meet yours, it's cool, buy the Lenovo.

Joeri 10y ago

The mbp uses the same hq series i7 as those thinkpads, but apple chose soldered lpddr3 RAM, which that i7 supports up to 16 gb, over socketed ddr4, which it supports up to 64 gb. Lpddr3 uses the same amount of power when active, but less in standby and idle. So apple optimized for idle battery life and thinness. I have one of those thinkpads, it's chunky.

simonh 10y ago
Interesting and much more accurate/informative than my own posts. Thanks.