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Are there any Signal-based messaging applications that work on the desktop without having to tether an Android or IOS smartphone to it, and without having to us

Are there any Signal-based messaging applications that work on the desktop without having to tether an Android or IOS smartphone to it, and without having to use a phone number as identifier?

lucb1e 10y ago
This. People say Telegram is bad even though it's no worse than any other popular product, or has a different set of advantages/disadvantages both security- and privacy-wise.
- tptacek 10y ago
  From a security and privacy perspective, Telegram is substantially worse than its competitors, so this is a little rhetorical sleight of hand you've just pulled here. If you want to argue that Telegram and Signal are comparable because Telegram has better UX and Signal better security and some people prefer UX to security, that's fine (I could not disagree more strongly, but at least it's a coherent argument). But don't pretend the thread isn't about security to make people believe that there's controversy about whether Signal is more secure. There is no controversy: Signal won the Levchin prize this year for the Signal Protocol and sets the standard for secure chat, and Telegram... well, let's just suffice it to say that it does not meet that standard.
jhasse 10y ago
OMEMO [1] is based on Axolotl (aka Signal's protocol) and you can use it with Gajim on the desktop. Still very experimental though :( [1] https://conversations.im/omemo/ https://conversations.im/omemo/
hn159753 10y ago
Facebook Messenger.
- jhasse 10y ago
  It's rather a web app than a desktop application, isn't it?
  - hn159753 10y ago
    It's not a desktop app, but the original requirement never stated that.
    - akjainaj 10y ago
      There's a desktop app for Windows. There's also a web app at https://messenger.com https://messenger.com. You can disable your Facebook account and still use Messenger
- rand77763 10y ago
  Wait, are you saying messenger is secure and private? As if Facebook would want to give up a source of data for marketing?
  - tptacek 10y ago
    It's opt-in end-to-end encrypted with Signal Protocol now, so Facebook does in fact give up that data. Having said that, you should prefer protocols that aren't opt-in for security, which is what Signal buys you.
- FabHK 10y ago
  Is Facebook Messenger Signal-based (i.e. end-to-end encrypted with a Signal/Axolotl double ratchet) as GP requested? I somehow doubt it. EDIT: Oh, I was mistaken, apparently there is an option now. From Wikipedia: On October 4, 2016, Facebook deployed end-to-end encryption as an optional feature for Facebook Messenger users. It is available in an optional mode called "Secret Conversations" and uses the Signal Protocol.
detaro 10y ago
Wire? (Haven't tried it personally, and I don't think there is an independent review of their implementation of the crypto)
mrbiber 10y ago
Riot.im uses the OLM encryption library (that is also used by XMPP OMEMO, see the OMEMO XEP). The OLM protocol is (I gather) very similar to the Signal protocol. Riot is based on Matrix which is a decentralized protocol (you're not tied to one company), and it doesn't need your phone number.
FabHK 10y ago
Wire. * open source, code on github * e2e encryption (apparently derivative of Signal's Axolotl double ratchet) * chat/voice/video, and group chats (all encrypted always) * based in Switzerland, coding out of Berlin * clients for iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, Linux, Web * can sign up with phone number or email (or username? Not sure - I think you can find contacts via username, not sure you can sign up without email) * reasonably responsive on twitter * yada yada yada
- throwaway122916 10y ago
  I like it, but what about all the tracking? Things like this: https://github.com/wireapp/wire-desktop/issues/80 https://github.com/wireapp/wire-desktop/issues/80 Then there is the fact that the client acts as a browser that fetches information from the web automatically without blocking trackers itself. This is leaking metadata and actual data.

Are there any Signal-based messaging applications that work on the desktop without having to tether an Android or IOS smartphone to it, and without having to use a phone number as identifier?

lucb1e 10y ago

This. People say Telegram is bad even though it's no worse than any other popular product, or has a different set of advantages/disadvantages both security- and privacy-wise.

tptacek 10y ago
From a security and privacy perspective, Telegram is substantially worse than its competitors, so this is a little rhetorical sleight of hand you've just pulled here. If you want to argue that Telegram and Signal are comparable because Telegram has better UX and Signal better security and some people prefer UX to security, that's fine (I could not disagree more strongly, but at least it's a coherent argument). But don't pretend the thread isn't about security to make people believe that there's controversy about whether Signal is more secure. There is no controversy: Signal won the Levchin prize this year for the Signal Protocol and sets the standard for secure chat, and Telegram... well, let's just suffice it to say that it does not meet that standard.

jhasse 10y ago

OMEMO [1] is based on Axolotl (aka Signal's protocol) and you can use it with Gajim on the desktop. Still very experimental though :( [1] https://conversations.im/omemo/ https://conversations.im/omemo/

hn159753 10y ago

Facebook Messenger.

jhasse 10y ago
It's rather a web app than a desktop application, isn't it?
- hn159753 10y ago
  It's not a desktop app, but the original requirement never stated that.
  - akjainaj 10y ago
    There's a desktop app for Windows. There's also a web app at https://messenger.com https://messenger.com. You can disable your Facebook account and still use Messenger
rand77763 10y ago
Wait, are you saying messenger is secure and private? As if Facebook would want to give up a source of data for marketing?
- tptacek 10y ago
  It's opt-in end-to-end encrypted with Signal Protocol now, so Facebook does in fact give up that data. Having said that, you should prefer protocols that aren't opt-in for security, which is what Signal buys you.
FabHK 10y ago
Is Facebook Messenger Signal-based (i.e. end-to-end encrypted with a Signal/Axolotl double ratchet) as GP requested? I somehow doubt it. EDIT: Oh, I was mistaken, apparently there is an option now. From Wikipedia: On October 4, 2016, Facebook deployed end-to-end encryption as an optional feature for Facebook Messenger users. It is available in an optional mode called "Secret Conversations" and uses the Signal Protocol.

detaro 10y ago

Wire? (Haven't tried it personally, and I don't think there is an independent review of their implementation of the crypto)

mrbiber 10y ago

Riot.im uses the OLM encryption library (that is also used by XMPP OMEMO, see the OMEMO XEP). The OLM protocol is (I gather) very similar to the Signal protocol. Riot is based on Matrix which is a decentralized protocol (you're not tied to one company), and it doesn't need your phone number.

FabHK 10y ago

Wire. * open source, code on github * e2e encryption (apparently derivative of Signal's Axolotl double ratchet) * chat/voice/video, and group chats (all encrypted always) * based in Switzerland, coding out of Berlin * clients for iOS, Android, Mac, Windows, Linux, Web * can sign up with phone number or email (or username? Not sure - I think you can find contacts via username, not sure you can sign up without email) * reasonably responsive on twitter * yada yada yada

throwaway122916 10y ago
I like it, but what about all the tracking? Things like this: https://github.com/wireapp/wire-desktop/issues/80 https://github.com/wireapp/wire-desktop/issues/80 Then there is the fact that the client acts as a browser that fetches information from the web automatically without blocking trackers itself. This is leaking metadata and actual data.