5 ms·

That is a bit harsh. Go outside of any large city in the US and you are basically in Trump supporters' territory. Even SV is basically Trump area with their thi

That is a bit harsh. Go outside of any large city in the US and you are basically in Trump supporters' territory. Even SV is basically Trump area with their third world billionaire enclave. SV basically develops and sells the services and tech that empowers candidates and Americans such as Trump.

lomnakkus 10y ago
(Sorry, this is a bit rambly, I've had a few beers.) Yeah, "rural" America has had it tough -- that's basically true of every "western"[1] nation -- but here's what I personally don't understand[2]... How are they supporting someone who is the elite? I mean, he may not be part of the "intellectual elite" or "academic elite", but he's clearly part of the "economic elite"... and, as such, will continue to bolster his own (+cronies) position. Much as it pains me to say it, I think what we're facing is a cognitive disconnect fueled by a (socio-)economic disparity in education/critical thinking. (A tiny bit of sort-of-reasoning to support this: The majority of people don't have reading skills above n'th grade... where n <= 8ish?) EDIT: I should say for disclosure that I'm not USian, but I do fear what consequences this will have for the rest of the world. I can only hope that most sane leaders won't take his pronouncements seriously. Yesterday he tweeted in ALL CAPS, for $DEITY's sake. [1] AFAICT it's just because China (and most of the rest of Asia) can afford to just "throw people at the problem" at very low cost. (No health/environment regaulations, the situation for workers is so dire, etc. etc.). [2] I mean, I hope I don't understand. Maybe all information exchange has just been subverted permanently by just shouting "FAKE NEWS", but I really nope not. I sense that the situation in the US is almost that dire (wrt. red/blue team), but if this spreads it could be disastrous for civilization itself.
- meowface 10y ago
  >How are they supporting someone who is the elite? Trump's superb speaking, performing, and persuasion skills. >Yesterday he tweeted in ALL CAPS, for $DEITY's sake. I don't support Trump, but I think all caps was probably warranted for that. It was his first response to extremely serious allegations (that Russia had footage of him telling prostitutes to urinate on each other; his inner circle was clandestinely meeting with Russian intelligence operatives and diplomats; etc.).
  - lomnakkus 10y ago
    ON TWITTER... and basically just saying "FAKE NEWS" EDIT: > Trump's superb speaking, performing, and persuasion skills. Is he genuinely persuasive to anyone who doesn't already agree or support his recently-found party? I watched a bit of the coverage of both sides in the debates and they were incredibly partisan in their perceptions of how each candidate had performed. I suspect that most voters just watched the summaries (which is sad, because they're stuck inside their bubble). ... then again, I'm a filthy Socialist Scandiwegian, so...
    - meowface 10y ago
      >Is he genuinely persuasive to anyone who doesn't already agree or support his recently-found party? I'm not sure, honestly. But he's definitely very persuasive to that group, and also at least somewhat persuasive to many rural and lower class ex-Obama voters. Also, content aside, he undeniably has a captivating speaking style and cadence. Debates have never meant anything.
      - lomnakkus 10y ago
        > Also, content aside, he undeniably has a captivating speaking style and cadence. I sense echoes of Godwin here... but may that's what you were going for? ;)
- Frondo 10y ago
  The way it makes sense to me that the rural poor overwhelmingly supported Trump comes down to two things: His entire branding schtick (gold-plated everything, slapping his name on steaks, for God's sake??) is what a poor person imagines a rich person's life is like. He's aspirational, both in the low-quality but glitzy products he peddles, and in how he talks trash about educated people and technocrats. It's true that he's taken advantage of the system, like with outsourcing and all that, but he's in no way smart enough to have developed any of that. He's more of a remora than an actual treaty-crafting shark. So he gets a pass on the economic elitism. The other part of it is that Hillary Clinton, imperfect as she might actually be (and it's nowhere near as bad as her detractors would claim, of course), has also endured a decades-long right-wing slur campaign against her. Literally as long as I've been alive the right has attacked Clinton for one thing or another, occasionally legit, usually not. Enough of a sustained attack just made her easy to hate in a way that, say, Elizabeth Warren just wouldn't be hated.
  - lomnakkus 10y ago
    That makes sense -- of a sort :). Thanks for the explanation. EDIT: I don't know if I just came up with this, or if it's something I heard: Essentially Trump won a popularity contest even though he wasn't the most popular. (Point being the Electoral College, obviously.)

lomnakkus 10y ago

(Sorry, this is a bit rambly, I've had a few beers.) Yeah, "rural" America has had it tough -- that's basically true of every "western"[1] nation -- but here's what I personally don't understand[2]... How are they supporting someone who is the elite? I mean, he may not be part of the "intellectual elite" or "academic elite", but he's clearly part of the "economic elite"... and, as such, will continue to bolster his own (+cronies) position. Much as it pains me to say it, I think what we're facing is a cognitive disconnect fueled by a (socio-)economic disparity in education/critical thinking. (A tiny bit of sort-of-reasoning to support this: The majority of people don't have reading skills above n'th grade... where n <= 8ish?) EDIT: I should say for disclosure that I'm not USian, but I do fear what consequences this will have for the rest of the world. I can only hope that most sane leaders won't take his pronouncements seriously. Yesterday he tweeted in ALL CAPS, for $DEITY's sake. [1] AFAICT it's just because China (and most of the rest of Asia) can afford to just "throw people at the problem" at very low cost. (No health/environment regaulations, the situation for workers is so dire, etc. etc.). [2] I mean, I hope I don't understand. Maybe all information exchange has just been subverted permanently by just shouting "FAKE NEWS", but I really nope not. I sense that the situation in the US is almost that dire (wrt. red/blue team), but if this spreads it could be disastrous for civilization itself.

meowface 10y ago
>How are they supporting someone who is the elite? Trump's superb speaking, performing, and persuasion skills. >Yesterday he tweeted in ALL CAPS, for $DEITY's sake. I don't support Trump, but I think all caps was probably warranted for that. It was his first response to extremely serious allegations (that Russia had footage of him telling prostitutes to urinate on each other; his inner circle was clandestinely meeting with Russian intelligence operatives and diplomats; etc.).
- lomnakkus 10y ago
  ON TWITTER... and basically just saying "FAKE NEWS" EDIT: > Trump's superb speaking, performing, and persuasion skills. Is he genuinely persuasive to anyone who doesn't already agree or support his recently-found party? I watched a bit of the coverage of both sides in the debates and they were incredibly partisan in their perceptions of how each candidate had performed. I suspect that most voters just watched the summaries (which is sad, because they're stuck inside their bubble). ... then again, I'm a filthy Socialist Scandiwegian, so...
  - meowface 10y ago
    >Is he genuinely persuasive to anyone who doesn't already agree or support his recently-found party? I'm not sure, honestly. But he's definitely very persuasive to that group, and also at least somewhat persuasive to many rural and lower class ex-Obama voters. Also, content aside, he undeniably has a captivating speaking style and cadence. Debates have never meant anything.
    - lomnakkus 10y ago
      > Also, content aside, he undeniably has a captivating speaking style and cadence. I sense echoes of Godwin here... but may that's what you were going for? ;)
Frondo 10y ago
The way it makes sense to me that the rural poor overwhelmingly supported Trump comes down to two things: His entire branding schtick (gold-plated everything, slapping his name on steaks, for God's sake??) is what a poor person imagines a rich person's life is like. He's aspirational, both in the low-quality but glitzy products he peddles, and in how he talks trash about educated people and technocrats. It's true that he's taken advantage of the system, like with outsourcing and all that, but he's in no way smart enough to have developed any of that. He's more of a remora than an actual treaty-crafting shark. So he gets a pass on the economic elitism. The other part of it is that Hillary Clinton, imperfect as she might actually be (and it's nowhere near as bad as her detractors would claim, of course), has also endured a decades-long right-wing slur campaign against her. Literally as long as I've been alive the right has attacked Clinton for one thing or another, occasionally legit, usually not. Enough of a sustained attack just made her easy to hate in a way that, say, Elizabeth Warren just wouldn't be hated.
- lomnakkus 10y ago
  That makes sense -- of a sort :). Thanks for the explanation. EDIT: I don't know if I just came up with this, or if it's something I heard: Essentially Trump won a popularity contest even though he wasn't the most popular. (Point being the Electoral College, obviously.)