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Should I have respect for Peter Thiel in him trying to help Trump? It is odd, maybe he is playing Trump, maybe Elon is too? I feel like even talking to Trump v

Should I have respect for Peter Thiel in him trying to help Trump? It is odd, maybe he is playing Trump, maybe Elon is too? I feel like even talking to Trump validates his lies and just disgusting moral integrity of what it means to be American.

cgag 10y ago
If you already respect Thiel then I don't see him working with the president to steer things being a reason to stop.
- ryandamm 10y ago
  I suppose if you already respect Thiel you have already given him a pass for his misogynistic and racist statements in the libertarian press. So yeah, less to forgive in his support of Trump. But then again, you'd have to overlook his incorrect views on things like macroeconomics (Clarium was quite the hedge fund!). I like the Bezos quote, frankly. I think it sums up Thiel well. As a startup investor, you only have to be right a few times, and being wrong doesn't hurt that much. Sadly, governing -- and choosing our represented leaders -- comes with higher stakes and worse outcomes.
  - cgag 10y ago
    Can you link a few racist or misogynistic links? I generally like thiel. I'm open to not liking thiel but I suspect I might interpret him differently.
    - ryandamm 10y ago
      'The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.' [1]: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... I suppose there are different ways to read that, but Thiel doesn't believe democracy with universal suffrage leads to the best outcomes. I disagree.
sleepingeights 10y ago
That is a bit harsh. Go outside of any large city in the US and you are basically in Trump supporters' territory. Even SV is basically Trump area with their third world billionaire enclave. SV basically develops and sells the services and tech that empowers candidates and Americans such as Trump.
- lomnakkus 10y ago
  (Sorry, this is a bit rambly, I've had a few beers.) Yeah, "rural" America has had it tough -- that's basically true of every "western"[1] nation -- but here's what I personally don't understand[2]... How are they supporting someone who is the elite? I mean, he may not be part of the "intellectual elite" or "academic elite", but he's clearly part of the "economic elite"... and, as such, will continue to bolster his own (+cronies) position. Much as it pains me to say it, I think what we're facing is a cognitive disconnect fueled by a (socio-)economic disparity in education/critical thinking. (A tiny bit of sort-of-reasoning to support this: The majority of people don't have reading skills above n'th grade... where n <= 8ish?) EDIT: I should say for disclosure that I'm not USian, but I do fear what consequences this will have for the rest of the world. I can only hope that most sane leaders won't take his pronouncements seriously. Yesterday he tweeted in ALL CAPS, for $DEITY's sake. [1] AFAICT it's just because China (and most of the rest of Asia) can afford to just "throw people at the problem" at very low cost. (No health/environment regaulations, the situation for workers is so dire, etc. etc.). [2] I mean, I hope I don't understand. Maybe all information exchange has just been subverted permanently by just shouting "FAKE NEWS", but I really nope not. I sense that the situation in the US is almost that dire (wrt. red/blue team), but if this spreads it could be disastrous for civilization itself.
  - meowface 10y ago
    >How are they supporting someone who is the elite? Trump's superb speaking, performing, and persuasion skills. >Yesterday he tweeted in ALL CAPS, for $DEITY's sake. I don't support Trump, but I think all caps was probably warranted for that. It was his first response to extremely serious allegations (that Russia had footage of him telling prostitutes to urinate on each other; his inner circle was clandestinely meeting with Russian intelligence operatives and diplomats; etc.).
deleted 10y ago
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tn13 10y ago
I find such talk idiotic. Peter Thiel like everyone else is supporting views which also happens to be very popular views in this country. I not only have respect for Peter for supporting Trump but I think tech industry should be thankful to him for supporting Trump and ensuring Trump gets a good insider view of what role Trump should play or stay out of for tech industry to grow. By any stretch of imagination Thiel has helped tech industry, all the people employed in tech industry and as a result America too. When Trump's immigration team meets to discuss H1B, Thiel is going to argue on our behalf. Trump literally pissed on NYT and other media businesses while was much more positive in in Tech meetings.
ocdtrekkie 10y ago
I feel like Peter Thiel deserves respect for making an INCREDIBLY good bet on Donald Trump. When he gave Trump $1.25 million in support, it was at Trump's probably worst point in the election season. Beyond the general disgust point, a lot of us would've said he was just making a poor investment, because it seemed so obvious Clinton would win. In the end, it seems Peter Thiel was, as a good investor, much better at predicting the future than everyone else.
- joering2 10y ago
  CNN and other "polls" were giving Clinton over 80% of chances she win. They all been proven fake. I literally delete CNN off of my Sling roster for being a fake news station. Thielf's owning Palantir only God knows what kind of real information of state of voters pre-election he was able to grasp.
  - grzm 10y ago
    CNN and other "polls" were giving Clinton over 80% of chances she win. They all been proven fake. Proven fake how? Bad at predicting the end result? Sure. Misinterpreted? In a lot of cases, yes. Stats and predictions are not intuitive and widely misunderstood, and I certainly think that news outlets should do a better job using and explaining them. Using the 80% figure, that's a 1 in 5 chance of being wrong, which is what happened. This isn't to defend CNN by any stretch. I find the information density poor and not particularly subtle in its interpretation, and its website is annoying. But unless you have evidence of the numbers being made up out of whole cloth, throwing around "the polls were fake" is a gross misrepresentation. If you do have evidence that the numbers were made up, I'd love to see it. By all means, take CNN off of your list of trusted news sources. But please don't use fake polls as a reason for it.
    - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
      The problem with CNN is that they were actually right about the numbers and wrong about how to interpret them. Almost all of the mainstream polls were about national popular vote, and predicted that Clinton would win it (she did) and within their margin of error (about 2 points lower than they predicted). The problem is that they construed winning the national popular vote as winning the election, and while they're correlated, one doesn't entail the other. So while their prediction about popular vote turned out to be correct, their misestimation was localized mostly in a few key regions, which narrowly flipped to Trump. And thus we find ourselves in the case where CNN pollsters were right and CNN analysts were bad at explaining it (and made lots of untrue inferences).
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
There are many many reasons not to respect Peter Thiel ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peter-thiel-women-democracy_us_5747079be4b03ede4413f6f5 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peter-thiel-women-democr... )
- civilian 10y ago
  He helped take down Gawker, rightfully so, and he's simply against the welfare state. Respect is an odd animal. It's an interesting trend that conservatives & libertarians will respect people who hold different opinions, but if a liberal meets someone who holds a differing opinion, they vilify them for it.
  - GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
    Peter Thiel: "Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible." (second paragraph of link from article, direct link here: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...) Since when do we have to tolerate this kind of thing? Extremism in the defense of liberty never used to be a vice.
    - civilian 10y ago
      I know you think it's a scandalous quote, but there is a weird interplay between democracy and freedom. In some sense, government can maximize our freedom. By having police, a military, and a strong justice system we allow people to make decisions without worrying about crime. (And importantly I would include corporate fraud in the umbrella of "crime", and I think that the imbalanced resources & information between employer/employee and retailer/consumer justifies the government stepping in to standardize how those groups should interact.) It's a Pax Romana! When we don't have to worry about bandits, barbarians and charlatans then we flourish. But government can also diminish our freedom. We get spied on. We can't do harmless recreational drugs. For a long time we couldn't have sex in certain ways or with certain people. We can't choose how our child's school money gets spent (it by default goes to public schools-- I'd prefer a voucher system.) There are thousands of stupid laws! We incarcerate people at the 2nd-highest rate! And since we're the 3rd most populous country, it means that our government is one of the biggest instruments of tyranny in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...

cgag 10y ago

If you already respect Thiel then I don't see him working with the president to steer things being a reason to stop.

ryandamm 10y ago
I suppose if you already respect Thiel you have already given him a pass for his misogynistic and racist statements in the libertarian press. So yeah, less to forgive in his support of Trump. But then again, you'd have to overlook his incorrect views on things like macroeconomics (Clarium was quite the hedge fund!). I like the Bezos quote, frankly. I think it sums up Thiel well. As a startup investor, you only have to be right a few times, and being wrong doesn't hurt that much. Sadly, governing -- and choosing our represented leaders -- comes with higher stakes and worse outcomes.
- cgag 10y ago
  Can you link a few racist or misogynistic links? I generally like thiel. I'm open to not liking thiel but I suspect I might interpret him differently.
  - ryandamm 10y ago
    'The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.' [1]: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... I suppose there are different ways to read that, but Thiel doesn't believe democracy with universal suffrage leads to the best outcomes. I disagree.

sleepingeights 10y ago

That is a bit harsh. Go outside of any large city in the US and you are basically in Trump supporters' territory. Even SV is basically Trump area with their third world billionaire enclave. SV basically develops and sells the services and tech that empowers candidates and Americans such as Trump.

lomnakkus 10y ago
(Sorry, this is a bit rambly, I've had a few beers.) Yeah, "rural" America has had it tough -- that's basically true of every "western"[1] nation -- but here's what I personally don't understand[2]... How are they supporting someone who is the elite? I mean, he may not be part of the "intellectual elite" or "academic elite", but he's clearly part of the "economic elite"... and, as such, will continue to bolster his own (+cronies) position. Much as it pains me to say it, I think what we're facing is a cognitive disconnect fueled by a (socio-)economic disparity in education/critical thinking. (A tiny bit of sort-of-reasoning to support this: The majority of people don't have reading skills above n'th grade... where n <= 8ish?) EDIT: I should say for disclosure that I'm not USian, but I do fear what consequences this will have for the rest of the world. I can only hope that most sane leaders won't take his pronouncements seriously. Yesterday he tweeted in ALL CAPS, for $DEITY's sake. [1] AFAICT it's just because China (and most of the rest of Asia) can afford to just "throw people at the problem" at very low cost. (No health/environment regaulations, the situation for workers is so dire, etc. etc.). [2] I mean, I hope I don't understand. Maybe all information exchange has just been subverted permanently by just shouting "FAKE NEWS", but I really nope not. I sense that the situation in the US is almost that dire (wrt. red/blue team), but if this spreads it could be disastrous for civilization itself.
- meowface 10y ago
  >How are they supporting someone who is the elite? Trump's superb speaking, performing, and persuasion skills. >Yesterday he tweeted in ALL CAPS, for $DEITY's sake. I don't support Trump, but I think all caps was probably warranted for that. It was his first response to extremely serious allegations (that Russia had footage of him telling prostitutes to urinate on each other; his inner circle was clandestinely meeting with Russian intelligence operatives and diplomats; etc.).

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

tn13 10y ago

I find such talk idiotic. Peter Thiel like everyone else is supporting views which also happens to be very popular views in this country. I not only have respect for Peter for supporting Trump but I think tech industry should be thankful to him for supporting Trump and ensuring Trump gets a good insider view of what role Trump should play or stay out of for tech industry to grow. By any stretch of imagination Thiel has helped tech industry, all the people employed in tech industry and as a result America too. When Trump's immigration team meets to discuss H1B, Thiel is going to argue on our behalf. Trump literally pissed on NYT and other media businesses while was much more positive in in Tech meetings.

ocdtrekkie 10y ago

I feel like Peter Thiel deserves respect for making an INCREDIBLY good bet on Donald Trump. When he gave Trump $1.25 million in support, it was at Trump's probably worst point in the election season. Beyond the general disgust point, a lot of us would've said he was just making a poor investment, because it seemed so obvious Clinton would win. In the end, it seems Peter Thiel was, as a good investor, much better at predicting the future than everyone else.

joering2 10y ago
CNN and other "polls" were giving Clinton over 80% of chances she win. They all been proven fake. I literally delete CNN off of my Sling roster for being a fake news station. Thielf's owning Palantir only God knows what kind of real information of state of voters pre-election he was able to grasp.
- grzm 10y ago
  CNN and other "polls" were giving Clinton over 80% of chances she win. They all been proven fake. Proven fake how? Bad at predicting the end result? Sure. Misinterpreted? In a lot of cases, yes. Stats and predictions are not intuitive and widely misunderstood, and I certainly think that news outlets should do a better job using and explaining them. Using the 80% figure, that's a 1 in 5 chance of being wrong, which is what happened. This isn't to defend CNN by any stretch. I find the information density poor and not particularly subtle in its interpretation, and its website is annoying. But unless you have evidence of the numbers being made up out of whole cloth, throwing around "the polls were fake" is a gross misrepresentation. If you do have evidence that the numbers were made up, I'd love to see it. By all means, take CNN off of your list of trusted news sources. But please don't use fake polls as a reason for it.
  - SomeStupidPoint 10y ago
    The problem with CNN is that they were actually right about the numbers and wrong about how to interpret them. Almost all of the mainstream polls were about national popular vote, and predicted that Clinton would win it (she did) and within their margin of error (about 2 points lower than they predicted). The problem is that they construed winning the national popular vote as winning the election, and while they're correlated, one doesn't entail the other. So while their prediction about popular vote turned out to be correct, their misestimation was localized mostly in a few key regions, which narrowly flipped to Trump. And thus we find ourselves in the case where CNN pollsters were right and CNN analysts were bad at explaining it (and made lots of untrue inferences).

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago

There are many many reasons not to respect Peter Thiel ( http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peter-thiel-women-democracy_us_5747079be4b03ede4413f6f5 http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/peter-thiel-women-democr... )

civilian 10y ago
He helped take down Gawker, rightfully so, and he's simply against the welfare state. Respect is an odd animal. It's an interesting trend that conservatives & libertarians will respect people who hold different opinions, but if a liberal meets someone who holds a differing opinion, they vilify them for it.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  Peter Thiel: "Most importantly, I no longer believe that freedom and democracy are compatible." (second paragraph of link from article, direct link here: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio...) Since when do we have to tolerate this kind of thing? Extremism in the defense of liberty never used to be a vice.
  - civilian 10y ago
    I know you think it's a scandalous quote, but there is a weird interplay between democracy and freedom. In some sense, government can maximize our freedom. By having police, a military, and a strong justice system we allow people to make decisions without worrying about crime. (And importantly I would include corporate fraud in the umbrella of "crime", and I think that the imbalanced resources & information between employer/employee and retailer/consumer justifies the government stepping in to standardize how those groups should interact.) It's a Pax Romana! When we don't have to worry about bandits, barbarians and charlatans then we flourish. But government can also diminish our freedom. We get spied on. We can't do harmless recreational drugs. For a long time we couldn't have sex in certain ways or with certain people. We can't choose how our child's school money gets spent (it by default goes to public schools-- I'd prefer a voucher system.) There are thousands of stupid laws! We incarcerate people at the 2nd-highest rate! And since we're the 3rd most populous country, it means that our government is one of the biggest instruments of tyranny in the world. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarceration_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_incarcera...