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Actually there is a false equivalency even if I take your list on face value - the things you mentioned are done by multiple actors: two US administrations, Con

by dimitar 10y ago

Actually there is a false equivalency even if I take your list on face value - the things you mentioned are done by multiple actors: two US administrations, Congress, Tribal and sectoral militias, Middle-Eastern governments, even private entities (CNN). On the Russian side your have Putin and his vertical of power (the popular term for his centralized, personal rule of Russia). I also don't understand the point - is any of these things I listed OK because the "US" does them (or vice versa)? Looks like the 'Tu quoque' or 'appeal to hypocrisy' logical fallacy.

throw_away 10y ago
It's also tradition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
gaius 10y ago
Actually there is a false equivalency It is not false at all. The reality is that nations pursue their national interests, and the exact mechanism by which they organise themselves to do so is a mere implication detail.
- contrast 10y ago
  How you organise yourself is a huge part of if and how you value people other than yourself. Some of us think democracy, free speech, civil liberties are important, because other people matter, and we are better off even with flawed implementations of those ideals. So sure, cast them aside as mere "implication details" if you like. The Internet will always be full of nihilistic kids who don't think anything is worth standing up for, and it's valuable to have examples to point to.
  - gaius 10y ago
    democracy, free speech, civil liberties are important That's funny because when any country engages in any policy it believes itself to be "the good guys". Russia didn't export revolution "because we are evil lol" but it saw itself as liberating the oppressed every bit as America does when it launches the bombers. Again. One bombing mission on average every 20 minutes for the last 8 years. Show me some actual evidence that American values are any different than Russia's.

by dimitar 10y ago

throw_away 10y ago

It's also tradition: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes

gaius 10y ago

Actually there is a false equivalency It is not false at all. The reality is that nations pursue their national interests, and the exact mechanism by which they organise themselves to do so is a mere implication detail.

contrast 10y ago
How you organise yourself is a huge part of if and how you value people other than yourself. Some of us think democracy, free speech, civil liberties are important, because other people matter, and we are better off even with flawed implementations of those ideals. So sure, cast them aside as mere "implication details" if you like. The Internet will always be full of nihilistic kids who don't think anything is worth standing up for, and it's valuable to have examples to point to.
- gaius 10y ago
  democracy, free speech, civil liberties are important That's funny because when any country engages in any policy it believes itself to be "the good guys". Russia didn't export revolution "because we are evil lol" but it saw itself as liberating the oppressed every bit as America does when it launches the bombers. Again. One bombing mission on average every 20 minutes for the last 8 years. Show me some actual evidence that American values are any different than Russia's.