5 ms·

It still doesn't change the fact that news orgs universally lack the time to conduct real journalism -- fake news is a direct result of reducing the time that j

by ihsw 10y ago

It still doesn't change the fact that news orgs universally lack the time to conduct real journalism -- fake news is a direct result of reducing the time that journalists have to vet and verify content. Frankly I'm quite happy about "fake news" proliferating, it makes obvious how hopeless and useless news orgs are. They peddle claptrap and tripe with reckless abandon. Facebook could throw ten thousand engineers at the problem and 1) it wouldn't fix that nobody trusts Facebook 2) it wouldn't fix that nobody trusts news orgs. Fox News' "Fair and Balanced" slogan needs to taken as religious dogma -- everybody gets as voice and Facebook has no say in who can't speak. To any news tweeps reading: combating "fake news" by partnering with Facebook is a partisan attempt at self-fellatio -- all you do is get yourself off without accomplishing anything. Conduct real journalism with well-paid staff that have the time to do their job and anonymously share it with the public is the only way to restore trust, not 1) procuring access to high-value talking heads (eg: celebrities, pundits, "experts") that will regurgitate your propaganda or 2) shoving out unverified garbage (eg: 99% of reporting on Trump this past election cycle) at light-speed. #1 is just a sad attempt at remaining relevant while having someone authoritative make an empty appeal to viewers and #2 is plain laziness.

samirillian 10y ago
upvoted your comment, but obviate does not mean "to make obvious."
maxfurman 10y ago
Actually, lots of people trust what they read on Facebook. They shouldn't, but they do.
JacobJans 10y ago
> 1) it wouldn't fix that nobody trusts Facebook If only that were true. So many people do trust Facebook, and absolutely believe everything they read on it, including blatantly false "news."
mcintyre1994 10y ago
What do you mean by fake news? It seems to have started out as actual made up news by organisations/people/websites pretending to be news organisations, but actually just making things up - eg. The pope endorsing Trump story and I'm sure loads more on both sides. Then some professor published his list of fake news sites, and included a bunch of conservative media sites as well as satire as well as obvious fake news, there's probably some liberal legitimate media sites there too. Then after Trump won conservatives started saying every liberal media site had been peddling fake news when they reported polls etc had him way down and Hillary was winning. I've probably missed a load more things but my point is, I have no idea what fake news is at this point - but I do know that at least some of it isn't a result of a lack of time by legitimate journalists, some of it is just people making stuff up.
- threeseed 10y ago
  Fake news should only really refer to the type of news that was generated from the kids in Eastern Europe i.e. completely made up with zero truth behind it. Unfortunately fake news has come to mean "news that I disagree with". Like today when Trump tweeted that the BuzzFeed story was fake news even though there was nothing fake about it. Just that the claims were as yet unverified.
  - randyrand 10y ago
    There's plenty of fake news on both sides. It's amazing to me that people can be so far up their ass to no not notice that.
    - gdulli 10y ago
      > Coler's company, Disinfomedia, owns many faux news sites — he won't say how many. But he says his is one of the biggest fake-news businesses out there, which makes him a sort of godfather of the industry. > Coler says his writers have tried to write fake news for liberals — but they just never take the bait. http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503...
jawns 10y ago
> Conduct real journalism with well-paid staff that have the time to do their job I can guarantee you that every single editor in the country would like to have well-paid staff who have the time to do their job well. And if you can come up with a business model to make it happen, well then I am willing to dub you the savior of the news industry. But absent any suggestions about how news organizations can actually accomplish this, your comment is basically just kicking them while they're down.
- threeseed 10y ago
  Hilariously enough one company has a business model that is working: BuzzFeed. They have been using the money raised from their clickbait business to operate BuzzFeed News. Which actually is a very distinct unit containing highly respected, award winning journalists who work on old school, long form journalism. Example: https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrishamby/super-court https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrishamby/super-court
  - serge2k 10y ago
    and in exchange they have turned their name to trash. I know they do are doing some quality work and I still feel a bit dirty clicking on an article from buzzfeed.
- ihsw 10y ago
  I don't mind kicking them when they're down, news org editors are some of the most vile scum of the earth. They have no shame about peddling garbage. Unless they make a sincere effort to restore trust by reporting the news instead of trying to shape society by controlling the narrative then I will happily dig their grave. At this point there is no news org I rank higher than Reddit comments -- it's all a stream of piss coming from partisan hacks. As for business model suggestions, my only suggestion is cut the crap. They can either subject themselves to the indignity of peddling garbage to make money thereby destroying their credibility or they can procure a staff of well-read and well-written folks that have a history of neutrality. Partnering with FB is a one-way trip to the former while the latter is a logical impossibility, news orgs inevitably stoop to partisan nonsense. Either report the news and don't get scared about alienating your ad sponsors/viewers or you peddle garbage to make money.
pvg 10y ago
It still doesn't change the fact that news orgs universally lack the time to conduct real journalism It doesn't change it because it's not a fact, let alone a universal one fake news is a direct result of reducing the time that journalists have to vet and verify content. No it isn't. "Fake news" is not a synonym for "shoddy journalism" - it's not journalism at all but a deliberate attempt to mislead.
- ihsw 10y ago
  It doesn't have to be deliberate but it can be completely unintentional. Let's take a look at the latest rumor mongering about Trump -- many news orgs have happily reported that intelligence agencies have evidence of Watergate-level wrongdoing and they've thrown in sexual deviancy for good measure, but all of it is unsubstantiated. I'd expect reputable news orgs to not touch the issue until we see public statements by public officials but they're talking it up like no tomorrow. This is fake news and it qualifies just as well as shoddy journalism.
  - pvg 10y ago
    It doesn't have to be deliberate but it can be completely unintentional. That's not what 'fake news' means. many news orgs have happily reported that intelligence agencies have evidence of Watergate-level wrongdoing and they've thrown in sexual deviancy for good measure No reputable news organization has reported that. I understand how you can be unhappy with the state of journalism but your arguments are not helped in any way by you inventing 'facts', redefining terms or completely misrepresenting reporting.
untog 10y ago
> Frankly I'm quite happy about "fake news" proliferating, it makes obvious how hopeless and useless news orgs are. It feels incredibly reductive to group "news orgs" together like this. It's not as if they are all on the same level. Yet, all suffer from the erosion of trust in news media, no matter how good their work might be. Any if they all dies, what replaces them exactly? I'm yet to see anything close to a compelling model (especially from Silicon Valley).
Jordrok 10y ago
> Fox News' "Fair and Balanced" slogan needs to taken as religious dogma... I think I agree with most of what you're trying to get across in your post here, but the reference to Fox News is throwing me off. Followed to the letter, being 'fair and balanced' is certainly something that should be aspired to, but Fox's use of it as a slogan has always been a complete joke. Fox's interpretation of 'fair and balanced' is hardly any better than than the 'fake news' alternative.

by ihsw 10y ago

samirillian 10y ago

upvoted your comment, but obviate does not mean "to make obvious."

maxfurman 10y ago

Actually, lots of people trust what they read on Facebook. They shouldn't, but they do.

JacobJans 10y ago

> 1) it wouldn't fix that nobody trusts Facebook If only that were true. So many people do trust Facebook, and absolutely believe everything they read on it, including blatantly false "news."

mcintyre1994 10y ago

What do you mean by fake news? It seems to have started out as actual made up news by organisations/people/websites pretending to be news organisations, but actually just making things up - eg. The pope endorsing Trump story and I'm sure loads more on both sides. Then some professor published his list of fake news sites, and included a bunch of conservative media sites as well as satire as well as obvious fake news, there's probably some liberal legitimate media sites there too. Then after Trump won conservatives started saying every liberal media site had been peddling fake news when they reported polls etc had him way down and Hillary was winning. I've probably missed a load more things but my point is, I have no idea what fake news is at this point - but I do know that at least some of it isn't a result of a lack of time by legitimate journalists, some of it is just people making stuff up.

threeseed 10y ago
Fake news should only really refer to the type of news that was generated from the kids in Eastern Europe i.e. completely made up with zero truth behind it. Unfortunately fake news has come to mean "news that I disagree with". Like today when Trump tweeted that the BuzzFeed story was fake news even though there was nothing fake about it. Just that the claims were as yet unverified.
- randyrand 10y ago
  There's plenty of fake news on both sides. It's amazing to me that people can be so far up their ass to no not notice that.
  - gdulli 10y ago
    > Coler's company, Disinfomedia, owns many faux news sites — he won't say how many. But he says his is one of the biggest fake-news businesses out there, which makes him a sort of godfather of the industry. > Coler says his writers have tried to write fake news for liberals — but they just never take the bait. http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503146770/npr-finds-the-head-of-a-covert-fake-news-operation-in-the-suburbs http://www.npr.org/sections/alltechconsidered/2016/11/23/503...

jawns 10y ago

> Conduct real journalism with well-paid staff that have the time to do their job I can guarantee you that every single editor in the country would like to have well-paid staff who have the time to do their job well. And if you can come up with a business model to make it happen, well then I am willing to dub you the savior of the news industry. But absent any suggestions about how news organizations can actually accomplish this, your comment is basically just kicking them while they're down.

threeseed 10y ago
Hilariously enough one company has a business model that is working: BuzzFeed. They have been using the money raised from their clickbait business to operate BuzzFeed News. Which actually is a very distinct unit containing highly respected, award winning journalists who work on old school, long form journalism. Example: https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrishamby/super-court https://www.buzzfeed.com/chrishamby/super-court
- serge2k 10y ago
  and in exchange they have turned their name to trash. I know they do are doing some quality work and I still feel a bit dirty clicking on an article from buzzfeed.
ihsw 10y ago
I don't mind kicking them when they're down, news org editors are some of the most vile scum of the earth. They have no shame about peddling garbage. Unless they make a sincere effort to restore trust by reporting the news instead of trying to shape society by controlling the narrative then I will happily dig their grave. At this point there is no news org I rank higher than Reddit comments -- it's all a stream of piss coming from partisan hacks. As for business model suggestions, my only suggestion is cut the crap. They can either subject themselves to the indignity of peddling garbage to make money thereby destroying their credibility or they can procure a staff of well-read and well-written folks that have a history of neutrality. Partnering with FB is a one-way trip to the former while the latter is a logical impossibility, news orgs inevitably stoop to partisan nonsense. Either report the news and don't get scared about alienating your ad sponsors/viewers or you peddle garbage to make money.

pvg 10y ago

It still doesn't change the fact that news orgs universally lack the time to conduct real journalism It doesn't change it because it's not a fact, let alone a universal one fake news is a direct result of reducing the time that journalists have to vet and verify content. No it isn't. "Fake news" is not a synonym for "shoddy journalism" - it's not journalism at all but a deliberate attempt to mislead.

ihsw 10y ago
It doesn't have to be deliberate but it can be completely unintentional. Let's take a look at the latest rumor mongering about Trump -- many news orgs have happily reported that intelligence agencies have evidence of Watergate-level wrongdoing and they've thrown in sexual deviancy for good measure, but all of it is unsubstantiated. I'd expect reputable news orgs to not touch the issue until we see public statements by public officials but they're talking it up like no tomorrow. This is fake news and it qualifies just as well as shoddy journalism.
- pvg 10y ago
  It doesn't have to be deliberate but it can be completely unintentional. That's not what 'fake news' means. many news orgs have happily reported that intelligence agencies have evidence of Watergate-level wrongdoing and they've thrown in sexual deviancy for good measure No reputable news organization has reported that. I understand how you can be unhappy with the state of journalism but your arguments are not helped in any way by you inventing 'facts', redefining terms or completely misrepresenting reporting.

untog 10y ago

> Frankly I'm quite happy about "fake news" proliferating, it makes obvious how hopeless and useless news orgs are. It feels incredibly reductive to group "news orgs" together like this. It's not as if they are all on the same level. Yet, all suffer from the erosion of trust in news media, no matter how good their work might be. Any if they all dies, what replaces them exactly? I'm yet to see anything close to a compelling model (especially from Silicon Valley).

Jordrok 10y ago

> Fox News' "Fair and Balanced" slogan needs to taken as religious dogma... I think I agree with most of what you're trying to get across in your post here, but the reference to Fox News is throwing me off. Followed to the letter, being 'fair and balanced' is certainly something that should be aspired to, but Fox's use of it as a slogan has always been a complete joke. Fox's interpretation of 'fair and balanced' is hardly any better than than the 'fake news' alternative.