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No offense, but I would suggest that you are highly atypical as a programmer. The vast majority of programmers (including myself) that I've spoken with prefer q

No offense, but I would suggest that you are highly atypical as a programmer. The vast majority of programmers (including myself) that I've spoken with prefer quiet, static backgrounds. Now, that's not to say that you need your own office to provide a quiet, static background, but it's just a whole lot easier that way. I interviewed last year at a very "tech-bro" type office in downtown Seattle. It was exactly as you described your office. It was not even three in the afternoon, and they had some loud European techno playing. None of the people there seemed to be actually doing work - it looked like they were lounging around for the sake of appearances rather than actually working. I ended up ending the interview early (the first time I've ended up doing that) because it became very clear, very early that it was a bad fit. Now, that's not to say that the only form of work I'd tolerate is work-from-home or private offices. Open offices can work, as long as everyone sticks to a shared set of rules. My personal preference is "library rules": if it'd be considered rude to do in a library, it'll be considered rude to do in the office. I feel like that gets about 80-90% of the benefit of a private office, while still delivering the floor-plan efficiencies of an open office.

jMyles 10y ago
> It was exactly as you described your office. It was not even three in the afternoon, and they had some loud European techno playing. ...but that's... not how I described the office in question.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  I dislike all music, not just in a programming setting. I would not be productive in such a situation.
- quanticle 10y ago
  From the grandparent post: We stayed up very late, listened to loud music To me, the two are related. You stay late because there's loud music playing. If it was quiet, you'd get your work done and go home at a reasonable hour. Instead, you have to deal with loud music, co-workers playing foosball, people coming and going behind you, and as a result, you don't end up leaving until 9pm or later.
  - jMyles 10y ago
    > To me, the two are related. You stay late because there's loud music playing. That's a presumption, unstated in the comment, and it is incorrect. I have worked at... I don't know how many co-working and incubator spaces. And of those, some had a very socially lubricated environment at night that sometimes included loud- (or even live-) music. But never have I experienced loud music during the day except on some special occasion (ie holiday party or something).
notahacker 10y ago
> No offense, but I would suggest that you are highly atypical as a programmer. This is probably true, but whenever this subject comes up on HN people tend to forget that programmers tend to be fairly atypical people. Many people - mostly not programmers - find that a number of people around them with a shared purpose and even background noise actually helps them concentrate, and find casual conversations with people on adjacent desks motivating as well as useful for conveying work-relevant information. A working environment designed to the preferences of people who like listening to loud techno music is certainly an extreme way of catering for those tastes, but separate offices and silence is also an extreme. And the pervasive myth that the only reason anyone would choose to work in an open plan environment is cost-efficiency is rather dented by the number of self-employed people paying (and commuting) to work in shared office space when they could have had more peace and quiet staying at home.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  Two questions. > the only reason anyone would choose to work in an open plan environment is cost-efficiency is rather dented by the number of self-employed people paying (and commuting) to work in shared office space Does anyone have numbers for this. I doubt the majority of work from home employees use such a service. >more peace and quiet staying at home. Is this also true? Homes with children are rather loud places for example.
  - notahacker 10y ago
    The size and recent growth of the multibillion dollar coworking industry is a pretty good indication that the number of people wanting a big open shared workspace is pretty high. I mean, you've got a survey here finding over a million people using coworking spaces, of which more than half are single founders or freelancers. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64387613/Coworking%20Survey%20Results/Slides%202016%20Coworking%20Forecast.pdf https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64387613/Coworking%20Sur... I'm pretty sure most of them aren't there mainly to avoid noisy kids.
    - tristor 10y ago

jMyles 10y ago

> It was exactly as you described your office. It was not even three in the afternoon, and they had some loud European techno playing. ...but that's... not how I described the office in question.

cmdrfred 10y ago
I dislike all music, not just in a programming setting. I would not be productive in such a situation.
quanticle 10y ago
From the grandparent post: We stayed up very late, listened to loud music To me, the two are related. You stay late because there's loud music playing. If it was quiet, you'd get your work done and go home at a reasonable hour. Instead, you have to deal with loud music, co-workers playing foosball, people coming and going behind you, and as a result, you don't end up leaving until 9pm or later.
- jMyles 10y ago
  > To me, the two are related. You stay late because there's loud music playing. That's a presumption, unstated in the comment, and it is incorrect. I have worked at... I don't know how many co-working and incubator spaces. And of those, some had a very socially lubricated environment at night that sometimes included loud- (or even live-) music. But never have I experienced loud music during the day except on some special occasion (ie holiday party or something).

notahacker 10y ago

> No offense, but I would suggest that you are highly atypical as a programmer. This is probably true, but whenever this subject comes up on HN people tend to forget that programmers tend to be fairly atypical people. Many people - mostly not programmers - find that a number of people around them with a shared purpose and even background noise actually helps them concentrate, and find casual conversations with people on adjacent desks motivating as well as useful for conveying work-relevant information. A working environment designed to the preferences of people who like listening to loud techno music is certainly an extreme way of catering for those tastes, but separate offices and silence is also an extreme. And the pervasive myth that the only reason anyone would choose to work in an open plan environment is cost-efficiency is rather dented by the number of self-employed people paying (and commuting) to work in shared office space when they could have had more peace and quiet staying at home.

cmdrfred 10y ago
Two questions. > the only reason anyone would choose to work in an open plan environment is cost-efficiency is rather dented by the number of self-employed people paying (and commuting) to work in shared office space Does anyone have numbers for this. I doubt the majority of work from home employees use such a service. >more peace and quiet staying at home. Is this also true? Homes with children are rather loud places for example.
- notahacker 10y ago
  The size and recent growth of the multibillion dollar coworking industry is a pretty good indication that the number of people wanting a big open shared workspace is pretty high. I mean, you've got a survey here finding over a million people using coworking spaces, of which more than half are single founders or freelancers. https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64387613/Coworking%20Survey%20Results/Slides%202016%20Coworking%20Forecast.pdf https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/64387613/Coworking%20Sur... I'm pretty sure most of them aren't there mainly to avoid noisy kids.
  - tristor 10y ago