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Bootstrap is useless except for simple static websites. I am not here to start a flame war but I think Bootstrap has no future unless for beginners and very sim

by myf01d 10y ago

Bootstrap is useless except for simple static websites. I am not here to start a flame war but I think Bootstrap has no future unless for beginners and very simple projects. For jQuery based frameworks, I recommend Semantic UI.

metaloha 10y ago
I'm doing a root-level reply so it doesn't start out too buried :) Most people use Bootstrap and Foundation completely wrong. They're meant as RAD (Rapid Application Development) frameworks, not production-level frameworks. For example (using Foundation because I'm more familiar with it), you should never have a `div` with the classes `small-12 medium-6 columns`. That's what you do during prototyping. For production, your `div` will have a class like `main_cta` and in your SASS you are calling Foundation's grid mixin. Production sites shouldn't include anything not being used, which is why libraries like Foundation have discrete components. You only include the ones you need (both CSS and JS), with the assumption that you are doing your own minifying and combining or whatever.
StevePerkins 10y ago
The thing is... I would say that UIkit is better, and there's some other guy at the bottom of this thread getting downvoted into oblivion for saying the same thing about Material Design. Momentum is a pretty powerful thing. And at the end of the day, ALL of these frameworks are pretty much limited crutches for appdevs who aren't that great with CSS. They have more in common than they have separating them.
- myf01d 10y ago
  With Semantic UI, you can control every single parameter, remove useless components, and you can add/override rules without messing with/modifying its files.
  - StevePerkins 10y ago
    You know what else can do that? Writing your own CSS in the first place, no more complex than it needs to be. :) I tend to rank these things on a balance... of having the functionality that I'm likely to use, versus simplicity and learning curve of the functionality that's there. So I like UIkit for side projects because it has a lot of built-in components that Bootstrap makes me find external plugins for (e.g. datepicker), and doesn't have a lot of Bootstrap crap that I never use (e.g. jumbotron, wells). It looks great, doesn't have any kind of complex "build system", and takes a few hours to learn. If I wrote a webapp that turns into the next big thing, then I'd have a real web designer redo the static stuff anyway.
    - myf01d 10y ago
      Of course you're right, I was talking more about serious projects run by a very small number of people (1-3), and under very limited timespan and budget. Companies won't need css frameworks anyway in most cases.
  - virtualwhys 10y ago
    > remove useless components How about removing SUI's jQuery dependency? [1] :) [1] https://github.com/Semantic-Org/Semantic-UI/issues/1175 https://github.com/Semantic-Org/Semantic-UI/issues/1175
    - Method-X 10y ago
      Here you go: http://react.semantic-ui.com/introduction http://react.semantic-ui.com/introduction
      - virtualwhys 10y ago
        I'd love to use SUI with effects written in plain javascript sans gigantic dependencies. Replacing a 100KB jQuery dependency with a 500KB React dependency I'd hardly call a solution. What happens when the next big thing hits JS land? As it stands the SUI author refuses to refactor out the jQuery dependency due to the amount of work involved.
- JoshGlazebrook 10y ago
  UIkit looks really nice, I'll have to give it a try.
camus2 10y ago
If you're goal is a UI with widgets for a dashboard then yes, using Bootstrap makes no sense. To be fair, if everybody took a little bit of time learning basic CSS nobody would need bootstrap either, especially when rendering differences between modern browsers hardly exist AND the fact that bootstrap doesn't support older browsers anymore.
berry_sortoro 10y ago
Pretty bold claim to say the most popular framework has no future. I guess most websites are "very simple projects" for your standards. Not everyone codes full fledged JS applications with whatever you do. I am certainly not a beginner and I like BS and I think it still has a very bright future ahead. BS 4.0 is the prefect framework for the average modern website. I am sure Foundation and other Frameworks are great as well, I actually never really compared. BSs devteam is highly active and the amount of exposure it gets and the fact that I know how it works makes me stick with it.
- myf01d 10y ago
  I meant by "very simple projects" static websites and dynamic websites that have very limited dynamism, pages. But something like Semantic UI, you can rely on it to build complex dynamic structures with sensible and good looking defaults, If you want more, it's very easy to customize without conflicting Semantic files with your customizations.

by myf01d 10y ago

metaloha 10y ago

I'm doing a root-level reply so it doesn't start out too buried :) Most people use Bootstrap and Foundation completely wrong. They're meant as RAD (Rapid Application Development) frameworks, not production-level frameworks. For example (using Foundation because I'm more familiar with it), you should never have a `div` with the classes `small-12 medium-6 columns`. That's what you do during prototyping. For production, your `div` will have a class like `main_cta` and in your SASS you are calling Foundation's grid mixin. Production sites shouldn't include anything not being used, which is why libraries like Foundation have discrete components. You only include the ones you need (both CSS and JS), with the assumption that you are doing your own minifying and combining or whatever.

StevePerkins 10y ago

The thing is... I would say that UIkit is better, and there's some other guy at the bottom of this thread getting downvoted into oblivion for saying the same thing about Material Design. Momentum is a pretty powerful thing. And at the end of the day, ALL of these frameworks are pretty much limited crutches for appdevs who aren't that great with CSS. They have more in common than they have separating them.

myf01d 10y ago
With Semantic UI, you can control every single parameter, remove useless components, and you can add/override rules without messing with/modifying its files.
- StevePerkins 10y ago
  You know what else can do that? Writing your own CSS in the first place, no more complex than it needs to be. :) I tend to rank these things on a balance... of having the functionality that I'm likely to use, versus simplicity and learning curve of the functionality that's there. So I like UIkit for side projects because it has a lot of built-in components that Bootstrap makes me find external plugins for (e.g. datepicker), and doesn't have a lot of Bootstrap crap that I never use (e.g. jumbotron, wells). It looks great, doesn't have any kind of complex "build system", and takes a few hours to learn. If I wrote a webapp that turns into the next big thing, then I'd have a real web designer redo the static stuff anyway.
  - myf01d 10y ago
    Of course you're right, I was talking more about serious projects run by a very small number of people (1-3), and under very limited timespan and budget. Companies won't need css frameworks anyway in most cases.
- virtualwhys 10y ago
  > remove useless components How about removing SUI's jQuery dependency? [1] :) [1] https://github.com/Semantic-Org/Semantic-UI/issues/1175 https://github.com/Semantic-Org/Semantic-UI/issues/1175
  - Method-X 10y ago
    Here you go: http://react.semantic-ui.com/introduction http://react.semantic-ui.com/introduction
    - virtualwhys 10y ago
      I'd love to use SUI with effects written in plain javascript sans gigantic dependencies. Replacing a 100KB jQuery dependency with a 500KB React dependency I'd hardly call a solution. What happens when the next big thing hits JS land? As it stands the SUI author refuses to refactor out the jQuery dependency due to the amount of work involved.
JoshGlazebrook 10y ago
UIkit looks really nice, I'll have to give it a try.

camus2 10y ago

If you're goal is a UI with widgets for a dashboard then yes, using Bootstrap makes no sense. To be fair, if everybody took a little bit of time learning basic CSS nobody would need bootstrap either, especially when rendering differences between modern browsers hardly exist AND the fact that bootstrap doesn't support older browsers anymore.

berry_sortoro 10y ago

Pretty bold claim to say the most popular framework has no future. I guess most websites are "very simple projects" for your standards. Not everyone codes full fledged JS applications with whatever you do. I am certainly not a beginner and I like BS and I think it still has a very bright future ahead. BS 4.0 is the prefect framework for the average modern website. I am sure Foundation and other Frameworks are great as well, I actually never really compared. BSs devteam is highly active and the amount of exposure it gets and the fact that I know how it works makes me stick with it.

myf01d 10y ago
I meant by "very simple projects" static websites and dynamic websites that have very limited dynamism, pages. But something like Semantic UI, you can rely on it to build complex dynamic structures with sensible and good looking defaults, If you want more, it's very easy to customize without conflicting Semantic files with your customizations.