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I understand and agree with everything you said. What are my options, as a regular citizen, to exclude myself from this "we?" I don't want to send men to such

I understand and agree with everything you said. What are my options, as a regular citizen, to exclude myself from this "we?" I don't want to send men to such destiny and I do believe that in 9 out of 10 cases only economic elites benefit from all this destruction, dehumanizations and suffering. I never agreed to send them, but I do share the responsibility, expenses and repercussions / guilt. What are my options?

mdotk 10y ago
Move to a country with no army
- MR4D 10y ago
  There aren't any of those left, sadly.
  - stephenbez 10y ago
    There are a number of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_arme...
    - eggy 10y ago
      And they have relied on treaties with, or protection by proxy from a former colonizer or nearby superpower. In other words, they rely on others for defense.
Nrsolis 10y ago
Here is the absolute truth: The human race is a brutal and tribal species. The capacity to do horrible things in the name of our own survival, rage, hatred, jealousy, and fear means that no society ever created by men can escape war. It's also why those that have seen war and it's cost are the best among us to speak of its horrors. The little-known secret is that the USA's biggest doves work at the Pentagon. I have more details, sourced from someone who is also a writer (as well as a retired special operator) and broke stories like this as part of his work as a journalist, but I'm not going to share those stories here. What was done to the bodies of our servicemen who died on that ridge would leave you speechless. If it had been done to one of your family, you'd almost assuredly do the same to them. Very few of us will ever encounter the brutal murder of one who is close to them. As much as I'd like to believe in the better nature of men, I'm also no fool to believe that vengeful rage will never enter their heart. Once these men knew who they were dealing with, it was "eye for an eye." They cared little if it damned them to hell.
thisrod 10y ago
> What are my options? Activism. I'd still like to think that there is a real chance of Tony Blair being convicted of mass murder and dying in jail. And of George Bush and John Howard not daring to set foot in Europe again. This was all preventable: it's quite unlikely that Al Gore would have started it, or that John Kerry would have allowed it to continue. Bush's ruthlessness, and the lack of value he placed on human life, was apparent at least a decade before he was president.
- Inconel 10y ago
  I share your overall dissatisfaction with the USA's disastrous foreign interventions, and while I agree that Gore probably wouldn't have invaded Iraq, I'm quite certain he would have invaded Afghanistan. And I see no reason to believe Kerry would have taken a much different path than Obama has. Speaking of whom, is there a reason he was left out of your critique? He seems pretty fond of both mass surveillance and drones.

mdotk 10y ago

Move to a country with no army

MR4D 10y ago
There aren't any of those left, sadly.
- stephenbez 10y ago
  There are a number of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_arme...
  - eggy 10y ago
    And they have relied on treaties with, or protection by proxy from a former colonizer or nearby superpower. In other words, they rely on others for defense.

Nrsolis 10y ago

Here is the absolute truth: The human race is a brutal and tribal species. The capacity to do horrible things in the name of our own survival, rage, hatred, jealousy, and fear means that no society ever created by men can escape war. It's also why those that have seen war and it's cost are the best among us to speak of its horrors. The little-known secret is that the USA's biggest doves work at the Pentagon. I have more details, sourced from someone who is also a writer (as well as a retired special operator) and broke stories like this as part of his work as a journalist, but I'm not going to share those stories here. What was done to the bodies of our servicemen who died on that ridge would leave you speechless. If it had been done to one of your family, you'd almost assuredly do the same to them. Very few of us will ever encounter the brutal murder of one who is close to them. As much as I'd like to believe in the better nature of men, I'm also no fool to believe that vengeful rage will never enter their heart. Once these men knew who they were dealing with, it was "eye for an eye." They cared little if it damned them to hell.

thisrod 10y ago

> What are my options? Activism. I'd still like to think that there is a real chance of Tony Blair being convicted of mass murder and dying in jail. And of George Bush and John Howard not daring to set foot in Europe again. This was all preventable: it's quite unlikely that Al Gore would have started it, or that John Kerry would have allowed it to continue. Bush's ruthlessness, and the lack of value he placed on human life, was apparent at least a decade before he was president.

Inconel 10y ago
I share your overall dissatisfaction with the USA's disastrous foreign interventions, and while I agree that Gore probably wouldn't have invaded Iraq, I'm quite certain he would have invaded Afghanistan. And I see no reason to believe Kerry would have taken a much different path than Obama has. Speaking of whom, is there a reason he was left out of your critique? He seems pretty fond of both mass surveillance and drones.