3 ms·

> The sentence is a bit confusing, but is he saying that a machinist job is a default one? Wouldn't he just say a barista or a Target checkout person as a defau

by zhemao 10y ago

> The sentence is a bit confusing, but is he saying that a machinist job is a default one? Wouldn't he just say a barista or a Target checkout person as a default type job? No. Barista or checkout cashier are unskilled jobs. This sentence is talking about skilled blue collar jobs. If you are a factory worker, you have the same set of skills that would be used in a machinist shop. The author is arguing that "technical skills" only qualifies you for a narrow set of jobs, but "high-end cognitive skills" qualifies for a broader range of jobs.

pacaro 10y ago
This idea that Barista is an unskilled job is the discriminating factor between coffee shops I want to go to and coffee shops that I don't want to go to.
- zhemao 10y ago
  I assumed that Balgair was talking about baristas at the coffee shops that you wouldn't want to go to.
- bluedino 10y ago
  There is skill in being a barista but you don't need to do the job as an apprentice first for two years or anything like that.
- gertef 10y ago
  the boundary is fuzzy, but how much training does a barista require, and how much training is required to call a job unskilled? Even hauling rocks requires requires some training to perform safely and efficiently.
  - zhemao 10y ago
    There are differing levels of skill for a barista. A barista at Starbucks might not need a whole lot of training. A barista at a more high-end coffee shop may need a lot more. It'd be like the difference between a fast-food worker and a chef at a fancy restaurant.
- kobeya 10y ago
  The amount of training you need to do to be a good Barista is orders of magnitude less than is required to become a machinist or tradesman.
Inconel 10y ago
I'm obviously biased here because I have no formal education beyond high school and I work in skilled manufacturing but I generally dislike the fairly common notion that people working in the trades have low cognitive ability. Or that those who have gone to a four year university automatically have high cognitive abilities. I won't speak to my own abilities, since I don't consider myself to be smart, and also because people, myself included, tend to be terrible at self evaluation, but I can very comfortably say that I've worked with many people from similarly lacking educational backgrounds who are incredibly smart, have a wide range of interests, and are unbelievably inventive. This isn't to knock college education, I'm sure it's a wonderful environment in which to learn and mature, and I'd love for it to be made available to more people, particularly lower income working class people, but I don't think it is the only path to intelligence or knowledge. Edit: Just to be clear, my response wasn't meant to imply you personally feel this way, it was just a general observation.
- zhemao 10y ago
  I don't actually agree with the author. I was just explaining what the author's point was. There are certainly a lot of intelligent people with only a high school degree and a lot of stupid people with a bachelors degree. When it comes to finding jobs, the bachelors degree is mainly a form of signaling.
- Balgair 10y ago
  Yeah, intelligence comes in many colors. Some Profs that I know are terrible in dating and personal relations, and some are good/normal. Similarly, with mechanics and machinists (I come from a long family history of them), some are very smart and very clever, and some are not and they don't typically last very long. I once told a Prof that a garbage man was more important for public health than a doctor. This, as you would expect, did not go well. It's true though, a garbage man prevents more diseases and infections in a year than any one doctor will in their lifetime. So, on the flip side of intelligence, you don't have to be smart to be really really effective, but you then do have to be consistent.

by zhemao 10y ago

pacaro 10y ago

This idea that Barista is an unskilled job is the discriminating factor between coffee shops I want to go to and coffee shops that I don't want to go to.

zhemao 10y ago
I assumed that Balgair was talking about baristas at the coffee shops that you wouldn't want to go to.
bluedino 10y ago
There is skill in being a barista but you don't need to do the job as an apprentice first for two years or anything like that.
gertef 10y ago
the boundary is fuzzy, but how much training does a barista require, and how much training is required to call a job unskilled? Even hauling rocks requires requires some training to perform safely and efficiently.
- zhemao 10y ago
  There are differing levels of skill for a barista. A barista at Starbucks might not need a whole lot of training. A barista at a more high-end coffee shop may need a lot more. It'd be like the difference between a fast-food worker and a chef at a fancy restaurant.
kobeya 10y ago
The amount of training you need to do to be a good Barista is orders of magnitude less than is required to become a machinist or tradesman.

Inconel 10y ago

I'm obviously biased here because I have no formal education beyond high school and I work in skilled manufacturing but I generally dislike the fairly common notion that people working in the trades have low cognitive ability. Or that those who have gone to a four year university automatically have high cognitive abilities. I won't speak to my own abilities, since I don't consider myself to be smart, and also because people, myself included, tend to be terrible at self evaluation, but I can very comfortably say that I've worked with many people from similarly lacking educational backgrounds who are incredibly smart, have a wide range of interests, and are unbelievably inventive. This isn't to knock college education, I'm sure it's a wonderful environment in which to learn and mature, and I'd love for it to be made available to more people, particularly lower income working class people, but I don't think it is the only path to intelligence or knowledge. Edit: Just to be clear, my response wasn't meant to imply you personally feel this way, it was just a general observation.

zhemao 10y ago
I don't actually agree with the author. I was just explaining what the author's point was. There are certainly a lot of intelligent people with only a high school degree and a lot of stupid people with a bachelors degree. When it comes to finding jobs, the bachelors degree is mainly a form of signaling.
Balgair 10y ago
Yeah, intelligence comes in many colors. Some Profs that I know are terrible in dating and personal relations, and some are good/normal. Similarly, with mechanics and machinists (I come from a long family history of them), some are very smart and very clever, and some are not and they don't typically last very long. I once told a Prof that a garbage man was more important for public health than a doctor. This, as you would expect, did not go well. It's true though, a garbage man prevents more diseases and infections in a year than any one doctor will in their lifetime. So, on the flip side of intelligence, you don't have to be smart to be really really effective, but you then do have to be consistent.