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I think Elon Musk is what Steve Jobs wanted to be. Steve Jobs thought he was changing the world with the iPhone, and while it was new it wasn't world changing.

I think Elon Musk is what Steve Jobs wanted to be. Steve Jobs thought he was changing the world with the iPhone, and while it was new it wasn't world changing. What Elon Musk does is world changing.

chx 10y ago
If you think the iPhone didn't change the world, you need to take a second look.
madeofpalk 10y ago
iPhone wasnt world changing? I mean sure, you could make the argument that if it wasnt Apple with the iPhone it would have been someone else, but it's undeniably daft to think that the iPhone didn't lead to a complete change in not only consumer electronics (mobile phones), but also so many services around it. It's well documented that Android was going to be Blackberry-ish, then they pivoted to be iPhone-ish after the original iPhone announcement. Think the App Store and things like Uber, which exist primarily as mobile apps.
- skeletonjelly 10y ago
  Interested to see your sources on this. I was under the impression Android started first but Apple beat them to the announcement
  - sosborn 10y ago
    http://www.pcworld.com/article/254539/original_android_prototype_revealed_during_google_oracle_trial.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/254539/original_android_proto...
  - fossuser 10y ago
    I had read they had a "Dream" android phone prototype they were working on that was blackberry like [1]. There was also rumored to be a second one that was more iPhone like slated for down the line, but when the Apple demo happened Google immediately scrapped their blackberry like phone and the second one became the first. Interesting that Google recognized the importance and adapted quickly while Ballmer laughed it off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U [1]: http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/25/2974676/this-was-the-original-google-phone-presented-in-2006 http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/25/2974676/this-was-the-origi...
    - moojah 10y ago
      If you walk through the new London Google office by kings cross, you can see the original android phone right by their restaurant. It looked just like a blackberry / Nokia E62..
- xenadu02 10y ago
  The iPhone broke the carrier's backs. Before the iPhone the carrier was the customer, not you. They dictated features. They had final approval over the awful Java applets on phones. They also set the app prices and took a huge cut. Very rarely is a new technology useful in abstract; the inventor of the steering wheel made a contribution but without the rest of the car it is meaningless. Touch screens existed, sure. There were one or two largish screen phones, sure. Smartphones existed (all using keyboards and styluses). OS X and Safari existed. But no one had put it all together into a single device, nor had anyone created a sensible UI design language to take advantage of things like multitouch. You're basically saying Dropbox is garbage because rsync/SMB/NFS/FTP existed. Or Uber/Lyft are garbage because Taxis existed. Yes there are some superficial similarities but it turns out the details make a massive world of difference and it is intellectually dishonest to be so dismissive.
  - jolux 10y ago
    Who are you replying to here?
- celticninja 10y ago
  The app economy was the revolution.
AsyncAwait 10y ago
Probably not a popular opinion, but I think Musk is overrated. The guy has a huge ego, just like Jobs had, and while he's putting it into a nice package, he's not the guy to come up with anything; electric cars, spacecraft etc. Yes, he might change the world if/once he gets to Mars, but most of his stuff is a marketing tech demo. Bell Labs changed the world. Tesla did not.
- Obi_Juan_Kenobi 10y ago
  > Probably not a popular opinion I don't know about that; the circlejerk against Musk has always been pretty strong. Not as strong as the one for him, but strong nonetheless. FWIW, the 'change the world' metric is dumb; he's played a major role in his companies' success, and they are quite notable companies. Not much more to say about it than that.
- agumonkey 10y ago
  His "story" seemed to hint at a more engineering capable than Jobs. Jobs could do a bit of hacking it seems. Musk could do a bit of physics which is a tad harder IMO.
- stupidcar 10y ago
  Have you read Vance's biography of Musk? He's definitely a flawed individual in many ways, but I don't think he's fundamentally an egotist. Certainly not to the sociopathic degree many business leaders are. And I think your categorisation of his work as a tech demo is unfair, and uninformed. SpaceX have built rockets that are delivering satellites into orbit and supplies to the international space station, and have achieved reusability. They have played a significant part in building a private sector space industry. These are not tech demos, they are real things. Can you boast any such achievement in your own life? Likewise, Tesla have built and sold electric cars that people want. They've created a global re-charging network to supply them. And they've been the first company to deploy significant automation into the automobile market on a large scale. These are not tech demos, any more than the gigafactory rising out o the Nevada desert is.
  - Cyph0n 10y ago
tma-1 10y ago
He hasn't changed much yet.
alwillis 10y ago
Jobs is complicated because he had technical knowledge and design taste. Most engineers wouldn't have thought about having proportionally spaced fonts back in the 80's when personal computers only had 80 x 24 fixed withd character green phosphor displays. When Jobs dropped out of regular college and dropped back in to take the classes he was truly interested in, he took calligraphy; years later that lead to the Mac being for first personal computer (the LISA had it too, but that was the $10,000 predecessor to the Mac) to have proportionally spaced, bitmap display. That's not something Woz (or someone like him) would have prioritized for a brand new computing platform.
alwillis 10y ago
Jobs also has over 300 patents to his name. His name is first for example on the multitouch patent, since he created many of the gestures and ui/ux concepts we use everyday: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/532841/steve-jobs-lives-on-at-the-patent-office/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/5328...
alwillis 10y ago
Jobs also has over 300 patents to his name. His name is first for example on the multitouch patent, since he created many of the gestures and ui/ux concepts we use everyday: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/532841/steve-jobs-lives-on-at-the-patent-office/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/5328...

I think Elon Musk is what Steve Jobs wanted to be. Steve Jobs thought he was changing the world with the iPhone, and while it was new it wasn't world changing. What Elon Musk does is world changing.

chx 10y ago

If you think the iPhone didn't change the world, you need to take a second look.

madeofpalk 10y ago

iPhone wasnt world changing? I mean sure, you could make the argument that if it wasnt Apple with the iPhone it would have been someone else, but it's undeniably daft to think that the iPhone didn't lead to a complete change in not only consumer electronics (mobile phones), but also so many services around it. It's well documented that Android was going to be Blackberry-ish, then they pivoted to be iPhone-ish after the original iPhone announcement. Think the App Store and things like Uber, which exist primarily as mobile apps.

skeletonjelly 10y ago
Interested to see your sources on this. I was under the impression Android started first but Apple beat them to the announcement
- sosborn 10y ago
  http://www.pcworld.com/article/254539/original_android_prototype_revealed_during_google_oracle_trial.html http://www.pcworld.com/article/254539/original_android_proto...
- fossuser 10y ago
  I had read they had a "Dream" android phone prototype they were working on that was blackberry like [1]. There was also rumored to be a second one that was more iPhone like slated for down the line, but when the Apple demo happened Google immediately scrapped their blackberry like phone and the second one became the first. Interesting that Google recognized the importance and adapted quickly while Ballmer laughed it off: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eywi0h_Y5_U [1]: http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/25/2974676/this-was-the-original-google-phone-presented-in-2006 http://www.theverge.com/2012/4/25/2974676/this-was-the-origi...
  - moojah 10y ago
    If you walk through the new London Google office by kings cross, you can see the original android phone right by their restaurant. It looked just like a blackberry / Nokia E62..
xenadu02 10y ago
The iPhone broke the carrier's backs. Before the iPhone the carrier was the customer, not you. They dictated features. They had final approval over the awful Java applets on phones. They also set the app prices and took a huge cut. Very rarely is a new technology useful in abstract; the inventor of the steering wheel made a contribution but without the rest of the car it is meaningless. Touch screens existed, sure. There were one or two largish screen phones, sure. Smartphones existed (all using keyboards and styluses). OS X and Safari existed. But no one had put it all together into a single device, nor had anyone created a sensible UI design language to take advantage of things like multitouch. You're basically saying Dropbox is garbage because rsync/SMB/NFS/FTP existed. Or Uber/Lyft are garbage because Taxis existed. Yes there are some superficial similarities but it turns out the details make a massive world of difference and it is intellectually dishonest to be so dismissive.
- jolux 10y ago
  Who are you replying to here?
celticninja 10y ago
The app economy was the revolution.

AsyncAwait 10y ago

Probably not a popular opinion, but I think Musk is overrated. The guy has a huge ego, just like Jobs had, and while he's putting it into a nice package, he's not the guy to come up with anything; electric cars, spacecraft etc. Yes, he might change the world if/once he gets to Mars, but most of his stuff is a marketing tech demo. Bell Labs changed the world. Tesla did not.

Obi_Juan_Kenobi 10y ago
> Probably not a popular opinion I don't know about that; the circlejerk against Musk has always been pretty strong. Not as strong as the one for him, but strong nonetheless. FWIW, the 'change the world' metric is dumb; he's played a major role in his companies' success, and they are quite notable companies. Not much more to say about it than that.
agumonkey 10y ago
His "story" seemed to hint at a more engineering capable than Jobs. Jobs could do a bit of hacking it seems. Musk could do a bit of physics which is a tad harder IMO.
stupidcar 10y ago
Have you read Vance's biography of Musk? He's definitely a flawed individual in many ways, but I don't think he's fundamentally an egotist. Certainly not to the sociopathic degree many business leaders are. And I think your categorisation of his work as a tech demo is unfair, and uninformed. SpaceX have built rockets that are delivering satellites into orbit and supplies to the international space station, and have achieved reusability. They have played a significant part in building a private sector space industry. These are not tech demos, they are real things. Can you boast any such achievement in your own life? Likewise, Tesla have built and sold electric cars that people want. They've created a global re-charging network to supply them. And they've been the first company to deploy significant automation into the automobile market on a large scale. These are not tech demos, any more than the gigafactory rising out o the Nevada desert is.
- Cyph0n 10y ago

tma-1 10y ago

He hasn't changed much yet.

alwillis 10y ago

Jobs is complicated because he had technical knowledge and design taste. Most engineers wouldn't have thought about having proportionally spaced fonts back in the 80's when personal computers only had 80 x 24 fixed withd character green phosphor displays. When Jobs dropped out of regular college and dropped back in to take the classes he was truly interested in, he took calligraphy; years later that lead to the Mac being for first personal computer (the LISA had it too, but that was the $10,000 predecessor to the Mac) to have proportionally spaced, bitmap display. That's not something Woz (or someone like him) would have prioritized for a brand new computing platform.

alwillis 10y ago

Jobs also has over 300 patents to his name. His name is first for example on the multitouch patent, since he created many of the gestures and ui/ux concepts we use everyday: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/532841/steve-jobs-lives-on-at-the-patent-office/amp/ https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.technologyreview.com/s/5328...

alwillis 10y ago