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The thing the NYT needs to fix (as of earlier last year) is the fact that you can't cancel your subscription without calling them (which is not the case for sig

The thing the NYT needs to fix (as of earlier last year) is the fact that you can't cancel your subscription without calling them (which is not the case for signing up). I spent 20 minutes[1] on the phone telling them that yes, I really did want to cancel. It was a worse experience than dealing with Comcast, not least because I felt bad for the poor woman who obviously had some financial incentive to get me to stay on with them. [1] This number is approximate. Could have been less, could have been more; it was a while ago. edit: I feel kinda bad now that this is the top comment in a thread about something positive the NYT did; if anyone tells me that they've since added online unsubscribe, I will change this comment accordingly.

CountSessine 10y ago
Very interesting. That's good to know - thank you. I was going to get a subscription for the first time starting in February. I'll have to reconsider that.
- caconym_ 10y ago
  It left a bad taste in my mouth, for sure. Like I said, that was earlier last[1] year; I make no guarantee that it has not changed for the better. [1] Actually I said "earlier this year", which is incorrect as of Jan 1.
  - oculusthrift 10y ago
    can confirm it still requires a call. its worked on me because i dont want to deal with it and keep putting it off.
- Someone1234 10y ago
  That's what companies fail to consider when they deploy these "retention strategies." Every roadblock you put between me and cancelling is ALSO a roadblock between me and resubscription in the future. I've subscribed and cancelled Hulu+ three or four times when there was a lull in the content. But I'd have no hesitation in signing up again because I remember how hassle free it was to cancel. Contrast that against LogMeIn which has the same strategy as NYT by the sounds of it (call to cancel, takes 15+ minutes). When I needed LogMeIn for a new project, I looked around for alternatives instead because I remembered how big of a hassle it was to cancel. Ultimately LogMeIn didn't get my repeat business, not due to the financial cost, but the hassle cost of them. Plus of course word of mouth like this is hugely damaging for these strategies. I won't be getting a NYT subscription now.
  - komali2 10y ago
    Same for me and WoW - I'll start up every expansion, play a couple months, and unsubscribe no sweat. I do it again and again because I know I'm not really "committing" to 15 bucks a month, because it'll be easy to cancel.
    - developer2 10y ago
      In the case of WoW, those temporary re-subscriptions for 2-6 months upon release of new expansions is the business model that sustains the game. If Blizzard didn't allow pausing and resuming billing at any time, the game would have died off many years ago.
- erelde 10y ago
  I've subscribed via the Play Store, canceling is easier than buying an app, no password, no checking. In the "My Apps & Games" menu > "Subscriptions" > "NYT Digital Access" > "Manage Subscription" > "Cancel" > "Confirm".
  - fjdlwlv 10y ago
    Using a trusted payment provider with good reputation is the solution to this quagmire... If there is one for your product of interest
tucif 10y ago
I believe there is a customer service chat online where you can also terminate a subscription. I almost did once, but they gave me a discount that I took. All in 10 minutes while reading HN.
bduerst 10y ago
Yeah, that's a Comcast-level move, though to be fair, I tried to unsubscribe from The Economist a few years back and it was a nightmare as well [1], so maybe it's just that the news media industry puts all it's eggs in a different basket when it comes to UX. [1] http://www.economist.com/help/manageprintsubscription#cancelsub http://www.economist.com/help/manageprintsubscription#cancel...
- caconym_ 10y ago
  I tell you what, it sure made me wary of signing up for any more news media subscriptions, now or in the future. It seems almost hypocritical to complain about how people don't want to pay for quality news and then treat them like crap when they do (not that I'm ascribing this to any one person or organization).
  - tajen 10y ago
    Don't sign up for Adobe either then: They've had massively huge CC leaks (shows a lack of care for security) and their unsubscription page has been broken for years.
- lorenzhs 10y ago
  Huh. I had a trial subscription, found I don't have the time for a daily newspaper plus the Economist, and shot them an email that I wanted to cancel. Received a confirmation the next day.
GCA10 10y ago
Echoes of Comcast ... the NYT is constantly promoting 50% off the posted rates for new subscribers, without ever offering such terms to existing customers. But if you're a "frustrated" long-time customer who's on the verge of canceling, then suddenly the 50% discount is rolled out. In most other industries, loyal customers get better treatment. Or it's the same deal for everyone. These sorts of inverted pricing structures may squeeze more revenue out of a few long-term, inattentive customers, but the hidden cost in churn, irritation and haggling is considerable.
- caconym_ 10y ago
  > But if you're a "frustrated" long-time customer who's on the verge of canceling, then suddenly the 50% discount is rolled out. Yes, IIRC the reason it was such an exhausting call is that they offered me a series of no less than 3, maybe more, progressively larger discounts. I simply wasn't interested, for my own reasons which are even less relevant to this thread than my original comment was.
- caf 10y ago
  Insurance is another industry with the same inverted pricing structure.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    Which is why I shop around every 1-2 years. I have saved thousands.
  - fjdlwlv 10y ago
    What? Your prices go up every year? I've never seen that.
    - caf 10y ago
      Yes (although I should clarify that I'm referring to car / house / contents insurance here). Typically the premium offered at renewal time will increase every year, but if you come in as a new customer you can get a substantially lower premium.
dazc 10y ago
Same problem in the Uk; The Times was the best online news site by a long stretch but when they went behind a paywall the biggest disincentive to subscribe was the phone only cancellation policy. As a comparison (although not directly related), I think this is where Netflix gained traction initially here because despite having an uninspiring catalogue the option of a frictionless cancellation made in it an, almost, no-risk proposition.
- stephancoral 10y ago
  Just use Incognito mode and clear your cookies. The NYT paywall is a joke
  - dazc 10y ago
    Sure, that works fine for specific articles but I miss the serendipity.
    - xorcist 10y ago
      Is it not enough to do Preferences / Privacy / Cookie Exceptions and choose to not accept cookies from them? I block a lot of sites which started to personalize content in an unwanted way.
      - erelde 10y ago
        If you block their cookies, they serve a funny login page everywhere.
compuguy 10y ago
So even if you are getting the digital subscription, you still have to phone in to cancel?
- djsumdog 10y ago
  It's called a "Dark Pattern" and there are some other HN posts on it.
shadowfiend 10y ago
This is one reason I'm actually a big fan of the fact that Apple News supports news subscriptions in iOS 10 (though of course not everyone supports Apple News's subscriptions stuff, including NYT). It ensures these shenanigans don't happen as much, since the payment goes through Apple, and Apple's subscribe/unsubscribe flows are generally very good because the UX they aim for is very different and independent of the particular subscription.
jordanlev 10y ago
Ugh, their customer service is terrible. I can understand from a business perspective how they aren't incentivized to make it easier to cancel subscriptions... but I'm a paying customer and have had frequent delivery problems (I like to get the actual paper paper), and the people at the call center are just totally unable to do anything to help. I suppose that's the irony of declining business... after a while you can't even afford to take good care of your existing customers, which further accelerates the decline.
dougbarrett 10y ago
When you go to the contact page to get the number to unsubscribe, if you hang out for a few seconds an option to talk to someone over chat eventually pops up. They'll try to keep you, hard sell you on other services, etc. just keep saying you'd like to cancel and they'll eventually do it. It'd still be nice to have a one-click option, but at least it's a bit easier to do passively than needing to call someone.
sjs382 10y ago
Similar issue, but they kept billing me. Then cancelled again, and they kept billing me again. Wasn't until the 3rd time that they stopped. I was able to get reimbursed via chargebacks but still, terrible experience.
xux 10y ago
For all newspaper subscriptions (and all other semi-shady companies), I use Privacy.com. It allows you to create silo-ed credit card numbers and specify how much each card is allowed to charge you per week/month/overall. When I want to cancel a newspaper subscription and it's impossibly difficult, I just email them telling them I'd like to cancel the subscription delete the associated credit card. Not my problem anymore
- martinald 10y ago
  What if they affect your credit record? May be different in the US, but if you did that in the UK and they didn't read your email or whatever, you're likely have them sell the debt to a collection agency which will then place a marker on your credit record. It's then a huge pain in the ass undoing the credit record mark. I still have a default on my record thanks to the cable company here not cancelling our service properly. They even sent an courier to pick the equipment up but despite a trillion emails explaining this they insist they can't do anything about it because they have sold it to a collections agency. What a load of gibberish.
  - nommm-nommm 10y ago
    Yes, they can (and sometimes will, depending on the type of service) keep billing you, and then eventually send you to to collections if you didn't actually cancel your account.
IanCal 10y ago
For future reference, I just tell people I understand that they are supposed to go through a script but I consider the subscription cancelled because that's what I've requested.
nommm-nommm 10y ago
They won't fix it because it's by design. It's a common anti pattern - make sign up easy and cancellation hard.
maguay 10y ago
This is why I only pay for news subscriptions via the App Store (or the Kindle store, if reading a magazine there): I know I can cancel anytime, with a few taps, and without a phone call. And, I know they won't mail me random stuff since all I want is the digital content. It's the best way right now, and it's silly because the news apps have to eat the Apple Tax just because their own internal policies keep me from signing up through them directly.
Symbiote 10y ago
I found "I'm emigrating next month" was very effective at getting an immediate cancellation with several services I used to use.
hollander 10y ago
This is what I like about Netflix. In their Help section, the top question under Account is how to cancel. But this probably reflects the fact that Netflix has money pouring in, while the NYT has more trouble finding paying subscribers.
dedfrog 10y ago
This happened when I subscribed to the UK Times. But I emailed them to tell them I was in South Africa and wasn't going to waste money phoning them they did end up helping me via email.

CountSessine 10y ago

Very interesting. That's good to know - thank you. I was going to get a subscription for the first time starting in February. I'll have to reconsider that.

caconym_ 10y ago
It left a bad taste in my mouth, for sure. Like I said, that was earlier last[1] year; I make no guarantee that it has not changed for the better. [1] Actually I said "earlier this year", which is incorrect as of Jan 1.
- oculusthrift 10y ago
  can confirm it still requires a call. its worked on me because i dont want to deal with it and keep putting it off.
Someone1234 10y ago
That's what companies fail to consider when they deploy these "retention strategies." Every roadblock you put between me and cancelling is ALSO a roadblock between me and resubscription in the future. I've subscribed and cancelled Hulu+ three or four times when there was a lull in the content. But I'd have no hesitation in signing up again because I remember how hassle free it was to cancel. Contrast that against LogMeIn which has the same strategy as NYT by the sounds of it (call to cancel, takes 15+ minutes). When I needed LogMeIn for a new project, I looked around for alternatives instead because I remembered how big of a hassle it was to cancel. Ultimately LogMeIn didn't get my repeat business, not due to the financial cost, but the hassle cost of them. Plus of course word of mouth like this is hugely damaging for these strategies. I won't be getting a NYT subscription now.
- komali2 10y ago
  Same for me and WoW - I'll start up every expansion, play a couple months, and unsubscribe no sweat. I do it again and again because I know I'm not really "committing" to 15 bucks a month, because it'll be easy to cancel.
  - developer2 10y ago
    In the case of WoW, those temporary re-subscriptions for 2-6 months upon release of new expansions is the business model that sustains the game. If Blizzard didn't allow pausing and resuming billing at any time, the game would have died off many years ago.
erelde 10y ago
I've subscribed via the Play Store, canceling is easier than buying an app, no password, no checking. In the "My Apps & Games" menu > "Subscriptions" > "NYT Digital Access" > "Manage Subscription" > "Cancel" > "Confirm".
- fjdlwlv 10y ago
  Using a trusted payment provider with good reputation is the solution to this quagmire... If there is one for your product of interest

tucif 10y ago

I believe there is a customer service chat online where you can also terminate a subscription. I almost did once, but they gave me a discount that I took. All in 10 minutes while reading HN.

bduerst 10y ago

Yeah, that's a Comcast-level move, though to be fair, I tried to unsubscribe from The Economist a few years back and it was a nightmare as well [1], so maybe it's just that the news media industry puts all it's eggs in a different basket when it comes to UX. [1] http://www.economist.com/help/manageprintsubscription#cancelsub http://www.economist.com/help/manageprintsubscription#cancel...

caconym_ 10y ago
I tell you what, it sure made me wary of signing up for any more news media subscriptions, now or in the future. It seems almost hypocritical to complain about how people don't want to pay for quality news and then treat them like crap when they do (not that I'm ascribing this to any one person or organization).
- tajen 10y ago
  Don't sign up for Adobe either then: They've had massively huge CC leaks (shows a lack of care for security) and their unsubscription page has been broken for years.
lorenzhs 10y ago
Huh. I had a trial subscription, found I don't have the time for a daily newspaper plus the Economist, and shot them an email that I wanted to cancel. Received a confirmation the next day.

GCA10 10y ago

Echoes of Comcast ... the NYT is constantly promoting 50% off the posted rates for new subscribers, without ever offering such terms to existing customers. But if you're a "frustrated" long-time customer who's on the verge of canceling, then suddenly the 50% discount is rolled out. In most other industries, loyal customers get better treatment. Or it's the same deal for everyone. These sorts of inverted pricing structures may squeeze more revenue out of a few long-term, inattentive customers, but the hidden cost in churn, irritation and haggling is considerable.

caconym_ 10y ago
> But if you're a "frustrated" long-time customer who's on the verge of canceling, then suddenly the 50% discount is rolled out. Yes, IIRC the reason it was such an exhausting call is that they offered me a series of no less than 3, maybe more, progressively larger discounts. I simply wasn't interested, for my own reasons which are even less relevant to this thread than my original comment was.
caf 10y ago
Insurance is another industry with the same inverted pricing structure.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  Which is why I shop around every 1-2 years. I have saved thousands.
- fjdlwlv 10y ago
  What? Your prices go up every year? I've never seen that.
  - caf 10y ago
    Yes (although I should clarify that I'm referring to car / house / contents insurance here). Typically the premium offered at renewal time will increase every year, but if you come in as a new customer you can get a substantially lower premium.

dazc 10y ago

Same problem in the Uk; The Times was the best online news site by a long stretch but when they went behind a paywall the biggest disincentive to subscribe was the phone only cancellation policy. As a comparison (although not directly related), I think this is where Netflix gained traction initially here because despite having an uninspiring catalogue the option of a frictionless cancellation made in it an, almost, no-risk proposition.

stephancoral 10y ago
Just use Incognito mode and clear your cookies. The NYT paywall is a joke
- dazc 10y ago
  Sure, that works fine for specific articles but I miss the serendipity.
  - xorcist 10y ago
    Is it not enough to do Preferences / Privacy / Cookie Exceptions and choose to not accept cookies from them? I block a lot of sites which started to personalize content in an unwanted way.
    - erelde 10y ago
      If you block their cookies, they serve a funny login page everywhere.

compuguy 10y ago

So even if you are getting the digital subscription, you still have to phone in to cancel?

djsumdog 10y ago
It's called a "Dark Pattern" and there are some other HN posts on it.

shadowfiend 10y ago

This is one reason I'm actually a big fan of the fact that Apple News supports news subscriptions in iOS 10 (though of course not everyone supports Apple News's subscriptions stuff, including NYT). It ensures these shenanigans don't happen as much, since the payment goes through Apple, and Apple's subscribe/unsubscribe flows are generally very good because the UX they aim for is very different and independent of the particular subscription.

jordanlev 10y ago

Ugh, their customer service is terrible. I can understand from a business perspective how they aren't incentivized to make it easier to cancel subscriptions... but I'm a paying customer and have had frequent delivery problems (I like to get the actual paper paper), and the people at the call center are just totally unable to do anything to help. I suppose that's the irony of declining business... after a while you can't even afford to take good care of your existing customers, which further accelerates the decline.

dougbarrett 10y ago

When you go to the contact page to get the number to unsubscribe, if you hang out for a few seconds an option to talk to someone over chat eventually pops up. They'll try to keep you, hard sell you on other services, etc. just keep saying you'd like to cancel and they'll eventually do it. It'd still be nice to have a one-click option, but at least it's a bit easier to do passively than needing to call someone.

sjs382 10y ago

Similar issue, but they kept billing me. Then cancelled again, and they kept billing me again. Wasn't until the 3rd time that they stopped. I was able to get reimbursed via chargebacks but still, terrible experience.

xux 10y ago

For all newspaper subscriptions (and all other semi-shady companies), I use Privacy.com. It allows you to create silo-ed credit card numbers and specify how much each card is allowed to charge you per week/month/overall. When I want to cancel a newspaper subscription and it's impossibly difficult, I just email them telling them I'd like to cancel the subscription delete the associated credit card. Not my problem anymore

martinald 10y ago
What if they affect your credit record? May be different in the US, but if you did that in the UK and they didn't read your email or whatever, you're likely have them sell the debt to a collection agency which will then place a marker on your credit record. It's then a huge pain in the ass undoing the credit record mark. I still have a default on my record thanks to the cable company here not cancelling our service properly. They even sent an courier to pick the equipment up but despite a trillion emails explaining this they insist they can't do anything about it because they have sold it to a collections agency. What a load of gibberish.
- nommm-nommm 10y ago
  Yes, they can (and sometimes will, depending on the type of service) keep billing you, and then eventually send you to to collections if you didn't actually cancel your account.

IanCal 10y ago

For future reference, I just tell people I understand that they are supposed to go through a script but I consider the subscription cancelled because that's what I've requested.

nommm-nommm 10y ago

They won't fix it because it's by design. It's a common anti pattern - make sign up easy and cancellation hard.

maguay 10y ago

This is why I only pay for news subscriptions via the App Store (or the Kindle store, if reading a magazine there): I know I can cancel anytime, with a few taps, and without a phone call. And, I know they won't mail me random stuff since all I want is the digital content. It's the best way right now, and it's silly because the news apps have to eat the Apple Tax just because their own internal policies keep me from signing up through them directly.

Symbiote 10y ago

I found "I'm emigrating next month" was very effective at getting an immediate cancellation with several services I used to use.

hollander 10y ago

This is what I like about Netflix. In their Help section, the top question under Account is how to cancel. But this probably reflects the fact that Netflix has money pouring in, while the NYT has more trouble finding paying subscribers.

dedfrog 10y ago

This happened when I subscribed to the UK Times. But I emailed them to tell them I was in South Africa and wasn't going to waste money phoning them they did end up helping me via email.