7 ms·

The Crimes of SEAL Team 6

76 points by Huhty 10y ago

jpfr 10y ago
The article basically says that some members of elite military units are psychopaths and acting as such. How ... unsurprising, given their choice of occupation.
- mtarnovan 10y ago
  What's suprising is the lack of consequences.
  - Nrsolis 10y ago
    I'm not going to defend war crimes. What I'm going to say is that war is the worst possible display of inhumanity you're ever likely to imagine in your darkest nightmares. I have several friends who have all served in elite military units. I have a photo of myself with Dick Marcinko from a few years ago. I've never served with any of them but I've spent good time with them and talked. The reality of war is so horrible and dehumanizing that many never fully recover. I have a short list of friends that cannot sleep without chemical aid. One friend drank not a sip of water for over two years, instead drinking himself to a state of numbness until he was able to finally recover. He's killed many many men. So I'm going to temper my own judgement of these men's actions with the knowledge that we train, equip, and expect these men to plan murder for our benefit. We expect them to inspire fear. And we send them into far off lands, away from their homes and loved ones, expose them to unimaginable cruelty to the point where their psyche is forever scarred, and then forget about that sacrifice once they've destroyed enough of themselves and others to satisfy us. We command these men to look into the abyss and forget just how much the abyss is staring back into them.
    - andrei_says_ 10y ago
      I understand and agree with everything you said. What are my options, as a regular citizen, to exclude myself from this "we?" I don't want to send men to such destiny and I do believe that in 9 out of 10 cases only economic elites benefit from all this destruction, dehumanizations and suffering. I never agreed to send them, but I do share the responsibility, expenses and repercussions / guilt. What are my options?
      - mdotk 10y ago
        Move to a country with no army
        MR4D 10y ago
        There aren't any of those left, sadly.
        stephenbez 10y ago
        There are a number of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_arme...
        eggy 10y ago
        And they have relied on treaties with, or protection by proxy from a former colonizer or nearby superpower. In other words, they rely on others for defense.
      - Nrsolis 10y ago
        Here is the absolute truth: The human race is a brutal and tribal species. The capacity to do horrible things in the name of our own survival, rage, hatred, jealousy, and fear means that no society ever created by men can escape war. It's also why those that have seen war and it's cost are the best among us to speak of its horrors. The little-known secret is that the USA's biggest doves work at the Pentagon. I have more details, sourced from someone who is also a writer (as well as a retired special operator) and broke stories like this as part of his work as a journalist, but I'm not going to share those stories here. What was done to the bodies of our servicemen who died on that ridge would leave you speechless. If it had been done to one of your family, you'd almost assuredly do the same to them. Very few of us will ever encounter the brutal murder of one who is close to them. As much as I'd like to believe in the better nature of men, I'm also no fool to believe that vengeful rage will never enter their heart. Once these men knew who they were dealing with, it was "eye for an eye." They cared little if it damned them to hell.
- Inconel 10y ago
  The contents of this article notwithstanding, I'm not sure I feel comfortable with that kind of broad generalization. I'm sure there are a number of reasons why individuals would chose to serve in such roles, and like any large organization or industry, I'm sure there are people who fall within a wide spectrum of ethics or morality. I wouldn't necessarily think there are any more psychopaths in the military than there are in Silicon Valley. As a counter point, albeit one steeped in personal anecdote, one of my best friends whom I've known since childhood, served a number of years in an elite military unit, and continues to do so in a slightly less elite Air National Guard unit, and he's probably the most honest, charitable, and fiercely loyal person I've had the privilege of knowing.
  - gizmo 10y ago
    One man's loyalty is another man's thin blue line.
  - jpfr 10y ago
    I am sorry if you feel your friend was offended. I did not say all members of elite military units are psychopaths. Some are. And after all I've seen, the concentration seems higher in those military units than in the general population. We are talking percentages here.
    - dba7dba 10y ago
      I read half or quarter of top 500 public companimy ceos are considered psychopaths clinically. I think for anyone to reach such high level of achievement, you are crazy to begin with.
      - grzm 10y ago
        I think it would be worth providing a reference with a claim like this, as a courtesy rather than as proof, so to speak. If it's interesting enough to post in a comment, it's likely interesting enough that others would want to read more about it.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
junto 10y ago
Let's not beat around the bush here. These guys are government authorised death squads. Many of them are psychopathic or deeply scared by what they've seen and done. They learn to treat the enemy as subhuman. That leads to a lack of respect of the dead and any war conventions. Is it really so surprising that this was the outcome?
- lightbyte 10y ago
  They are essentially equal to the terrorists they fight against in my eyes.
  - regressiveparty 10y ago
    So blowing up a bomb in a market thats specifically designed to target innocent civilians = shooting an enemy combatant corpse after its dead Great logic.
- michaelbuddy 10y ago
  Yes, let's not beat around the bush. You have NO insight on this matter, and your propaganda doesn't belong on this forum.
mark_chosenberg 10y ago
Behind the heroic narratives of building brand new autobahns it turns out the nazis killed a lot of people.
sleepingeights 10y ago
The article is about the failure to make something honorable of the worst actions a person does to another. What is so surprising of that fact other than the US spending billions on their Navy SEAL brand and exceptionalism? They could spend trillions on prettying up the act of war on men who only find killing another to be their only solution and they will still have the same problem if not worse. "Canoeing" itself is a tradition in the US armed forces long before the SEAL Team 6 undisciplined actions. It was common for US military soldiers and Americans to refer to Chinese and Koreans as "zipper heads" because they used to shoot those civilians and PoWs for sport in the same manner as the Navy SEALs practiced in their desecration and mutilation of enemy combatants.

76 points by Huhty 10y ago

jpfr 10y ago

The article basically says that some members of elite military units are psychopaths and acting as such. How ... unsurprising, given their choice of occupation.

mtarnovan 10y ago
What's suprising is the lack of consequences.
- Nrsolis 10y ago
  I'm not going to defend war crimes. What I'm going to say is that war is the worst possible display of inhumanity you're ever likely to imagine in your darkest nightmares. I have several friends who have all served in elite military units. I have a photo of myself with Dick Marcinko from a few years ago. I've never served with any of them but I've spent good time with them and talked. The reality of war is so horrible and dehumanizing that many never fully recover. I have a short list of friends that cannot sleep without chemical aid. One friend drank not a sip of water for over two years, instead drinking himself to a state of numbness until he was able to finally recover. He's killed many many men. So I'm going to temper my own judgement of these men's actions with the knowledge that we train, equip, and expect these men to plan murder for our benefit. We expect them to inspire fear. And we send them into far off lands, away from their homes and loved ones, expose them to unimaginable cruelty to the point where their psyche is forever scarred, and then forget about that sacrifice once they've destroyed enough of themselves and others to satisfy us. We command these men to look into the abyss and forget just how much the abyss is staring back into them.
  - andrei_says_ 10y ago
    I understand and agree with everything you said. What are my options, as a regular citizen, to exclude myself from this "we?" I don't want to send men to such destiny and I do believe that in 9 out of 10 cases only economic elites benefit from all this destruction, dehumanizations and suffering. I never agreed to send them, but I do share the responsibility, expenses and repercussions / guilt. What are my options?
    - mdotk 10y ago
      Move to a country with no army
      - MR4D 10y ago
        There aren't any of those left, sadly.
        stephenbez 10y ago
        There are a number of them: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_armed_forces https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_without_arme...
        eggy 10y ago
        And they have relied on treaties with, or protection by proxy from a former colonizer or nearby superpower. In other words, they rely on others for defense.
    - Nrsolis 10y ago
      Here is the absolute truth: The human race is a brutal and tribal species. The capacity to do horrible things in the name of our own survival, rage, hatred, jealousy, and fear means that no society ever created by men can escape war. It's also why those that have seen war and it's cost are the best among us to speak of its horrors. The little-known secret is that the USA's biggest doves work at the Pentagon. I have more details, sourced from someone who is also a writer (as well as a retired special operator) and broke stories like this as part of his work as a journalist, but I'm not going to share those stories here. What was done to the bodies of our servicemen who died on that ridge would leave you speechless. If it had been done to one of your family, you'd almost assuredly do the same to them. Very few of us will ever encounter the brutal murder of one who is close to them. As much as I'd like to believe in the better nature of men, I'm also no fool to believe that vengeful rage will never enter their heart. Once these men knew who they were dealing with, it was "eye for an eye." They cared little if it damned them to hell.
Inconel 10y ago
The contents of this article notwithstanding, I'm not sure I feel comfortable with that kind of broad generalization. I'm sure there are a number of reasons why individuals would chose to serve in such roles, and like any large organization or industry, I'm sure there are people who fall within a wide spectrum of ethics or morality. I wouldn't necessarily think there are any more psychopaths in the military than there are in Silicon Valley. As a counter point, albeit one steeped in personal anecdote, one of my best friends whom I've known since childhood, served a number of years in an elite military unit, and continues to do so in a slightly less elite Air National Guard unit, and he's probably the most honest, charitable, and fiercely loyal person I've had the privilege of knowing.
- gizmo 10y ago
  One man's loyalty is another man's thin blue line.
- jpfr 10y ago
  I am sorry if you feel your friend was offended. I did not say all members of elite military units are psychopaths. Some are. And after all I've seen, the concentration seems higher in those military units than in the general population. We are talking percentages here.
  - dba7dba 10y ago
    I read half or quarter of top 500 public companimy ceos are considered psychopaths clinically. I think for anyone to reach such high level of achievement, you are crazy to begin with.
    - grzm 10y ago
      I think it would be worth providing a reference with a claim like this, as a courtesy rather than as proof, so to speak. If it's interesting enough to post in a comment, it's likely interesting enough that others would want to read more about it.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

junto 10y ago

Let's not beat around the bush here. These guys are government authorised death squads. Many of them are psychopathic or deeply scared by what they've seen and done. They learn to treat the enemy as subhuman. That leads to a lack of respect of the dead and any war conventions. Is it really so surprising that this was the outcome?

lightbyte 10y ago
They are essentially equal to the terrorists they fight against in my eyes.
- regressiveparty 10y ago
  So blowing up a bomb in a market thats specifically designed to target innocent civilians = shooting an enemy combatant corpse after its dead Great logic.
michaelbuddy 10y ago
Yes, let's not beat around the bush. You have NO insight on this matter, and your propaganda doesn't belong on this forum.

mark_chosenberg 10y ago

Behind the heroic narratives of building brand new autobahns it turns out the nazis killed a lot of people.

sleepingeights 10y ago

The article is about the failure to make something honorable of the worst actions a person does to another. What is so surprising of that fact other than the US spending billions on their Navy SEAL brand and exceptionalism? They could spend trillions on prettying up the act of war on men who only find killing another to be their only solution and they will still have the same problem if not worse. "Canoeing" itself is a tradition in the US armed forces long before the SEAL Team 6 undisciplined actions. It was common for US military soldiers and Americans to refer to Chinese and Koreans as "zipper heads" because they used to shoot those civilians and PoWs for sport in the same manner as the Navy SEALs practiced in their desecration and mutilation of enemy combatants.