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I generally agree. But I'm not confident they'll change. They may have withdrawn support too quick, but what do they gain out of doubling down their efforts (

by pfranz 10y ago

I generally agree. But I'm not confident they'll change. They may have withdrawn support too quick, but what do they gain out of doubling down their efforts (especially if the market is just developers)? I've really been surprised hearing pretty popular projects that have been around for 20+ years still have issues on Windows (like Python). Working in VFX there are a lot of domain-specific open source projects that "support" Windows, but have out of date build instructions and break often just because most of the development is done in Linux. I really think Linux on the desktop's biggest problem is having third-parties caring about it (which is a chicken/egg issue) and people's familiarity. If you need Photoshop or your trackpad driver won't work--you're out of luck. Any of the troubleshooting or debugging I've experienced hasn't been any more difficult in Windows vs Linux other than my familiarity with how the OS works. I find troubleshooting Windows much more difficult because my familiarity has atrophied since I haven't used it heavily in years. I do think there's hope for Windows with the Linux Bash shell, docker, and virtual environments. It has always been a bit sloppy to use your current OS as your development environment. Personally, I just want good hardware with support and I'll probably move to Linux. Battery life, a good track pad, high DPI screen (and support for it), and build quality are the major things I haven't found yet and would really convince me.

kelseydh 10y ago
"Just developers" Developers are not trivial. Good developers lead to good apps, which lead to a better ecosystem. The technically savvy are also the ones who set the trends about what the rest of the curve adopts. This is only going to grow more true as creative work (coding, design, etc) becomes a larger and larger part of our economy.
- pfranz 10y ago
  Apple Developers are a prerequisite for a good Apple third-party ecosystem. Especially if you expect the software to be idiomatic to the platform. But in this case we're talking about web developers or developers for open source server software--not Apple desktop or iOS software. For a very long time Perl and Apache served the web while Photoshop and Illustrator ran fine on a different platform. Windows had both IIS and Adobe products but still didn't overtake Linux and OSX. Yeah, there is some bleed over to regular users and yes, losing them might be the downfall of Apple's desktop computer. But it's less than 30% of their business and the growth potential just isn't that high. My expectation is for them to milk the current situation with minimal investment (while trying to keep the perception of relevance) so they can focus on the "next big thing." I think they pushed things a bit too hard and people noticed, but I don't think they'll change course. They'll just try and change perception. I would love for them to double-down and heavily invest in desktops and laptops, but I just don't expect it because I don't see a business case for them to.
  - kelseydh 10y ago
    Apple is one of the largest companies in the world. Apple can and should be capable of robustly investing in both its desktop line and its paradigm-shifting blue sky projects. Thinking otherwise is dangerously closed minded. Apple's products are more than just the sum of their individual parts. They exist as an ecosystem that gets strengthened every time one of their products can create value through interconnection. E.g. the value of an iPhone goes up when owners of it can seamlessly integrate calls or watch videos through the phone on their Mac OS X or Apple TV device. Thinking these other, less profitable lines of Apple's business don't matter, or should just be milked for revenue is dangerous thinking that will lead to long term decline. Bleeding some money to keep the hardcore happy, so that those hardcore continue to set trends influencing what the rest of the general public wants, is a solid strategy that Apple should be pursuing. The Mac OS X computing line one of the golden eggs of Apple -- granted not their shiniest any more thanks to the iPhone -- but still one of their golden eggs. It would be idiotic for them to allow that goose to die.

by pfranz 10y ago

kelseydh 10y ago

"Just developers" Developers are not trivial. Good developers lead to good apps, which lead to a better ecosystem. The technically savvy are also the ones who set the trends about what the rest of the curve adopts. This is only going to grow more true as creative work (coding, design, etc) becomes a larger and larger part of our economy.

pfranz 10y ago
Apple Developers are a prerequisite for a good Apple third-party ecosystem. Especially if you expect the software to be idiomatic to the platform. But in this case we're talking about web developers or developers for open source server software--not Apple desktop or iOS software. For a very long time Perl and Apache served the web while Photoshop and Illustrator ran fine on a different platform. Windows had both IIS and Adobe products but still didn't overtake Linux and OSX. Yeah, there is some bleed over to regular users and yes, losing them might be the downfall of Apple's desktop computer. But it's less than 30% of their business and the growth potential just isn't that high. My expectation is for them to milk the current situation with minimal investment (while trying to keep the perception of relevance) so they can focus on the "next big thing." I think they pushed things a bit too hard and people noticed, but I don't think they'll change course. They'll just try and change perception. I would love for them to double-down and heavily invest in desktops and laptops, but I just don't expect it because I don't see a business case for them to.
- kelseydh 10y ago
  Apple is one of the largest companies in the world. Apple can and should be capable of robustly investing in both its desktop line and its paradigm-shifting blue sky projects. Thinking otherwise is dangerously closed minded. Apple's products are more than just the sum of their individual parts. They exist as an ecosystem that gets strengthened every time one of their products can create value through interconnection. E.g. the value of an iPhone goes up when owners of it can seamlessly integrate calls or watch videos through the phone on their Mac OS X or Apple TV device. Thinking these other, less profitable lines of Apple's business don't matter, or should just be milked for revenue is dangerous thinking that will lead to long term decline. Bleeding some money to keep the hardcore happy, so that those hardcore continue to set trends influencing what the rest of the general public wants, is a solid strategy that Apple should be pursuing. The Mac OS X computing line one of the golden eggs of Apple -- granted not their shiniest any more thanks to the iPhone -- but still one of their golden eggs. It would be idiotic for them to allow that goose to die.