5 ms·

> the Mac ecosystem is now ingrained into open source development. Interesting... > Anyone who suggests doing this either hasn't done it before or has way to

> the Mac ecosystem is now ingrained into open source development. Interesting... > Anyone who suggests doing this either hasn't done it before or has way too much time on their hands. Oh... Quick question, when was the last time you did it? Currently I have three full time Linux boxes: * Custom PC build I did myself * System76 Galago UltraPro * Dell XPS 13 Developer Edition Oddly enough, the one that gave me the most issues was the Dell supported XPS 13 DE but I didn't have to do a thing, just waited for driver updates from Dell which I could install via: > sudo apt-get update > sudo apt-get upgrade But at the end of it I have a Linux laptop with premium build quality, 8 hour battery life (with 4K screen), and an external battery pack that easily extends my battery to a full day of work before needing an outlet. My company gave me a Mac, but literally every other computer I personally own, right down to the Dell T710 server I have is running Linux (Ubuntu 14.04.3 specifically) without issue. I don't expect Linux to take over the Desktop market. But for Developers I see the current MBP as just another reason to seriously consider just getting a Linux laptop from an OEM like Dell or a niche player like System76. Let's face it, this MBP just highlights the fact that its target market is not developers or power users. Which is fine, and it probably can be a successful product with or without us...

fritzw 10y ago
The second you compile one package to get any of those boxes to work, for me, the pro-linux box argument is negated. Particularly for work machines, I don't have time to compile and install just to get my box up and running. Mac worked for me for this reason, I presume the reasons are the same for many. You like the freedom and power your boxes allot you, I like the simple operation of the mac. My problem is Macs are quickly becoming more work with all of there services and issues. When I start having to search for drivers online I might consider switching to Linux, but this won't be a cure all, because I deal too much in graphics.
- eikenberry 10y ago
  > The second you compile one package to get any of those boxes to work, for me, the pro-linux box argument is negated. This seems a strange things to say considering everyone I know who uses a Mac for dev uses homebrew, which compiles as part of the install.
  - robotmlg 10y ago
    Homebrew tries to download a binary for pretty much every package, and only rarely compiles from source.
    - nkkollaw 10y ago
      True. It used to be like that at the beginning, but now it's rare.
  - eridius 10y ago
    The "to get any of those boxes to work" part is, I think, the key part of that quoted statement. Homebrew may compile things (if there is no binary download available), but you don't need Homebrew to make your Mac functional.
- gshulegaard 10y ago
  I guess I implied it in my comment, but I'll explicitly say it here: > I did not search for, manually install, or otherwise fiddle with drivers for any of my current 3 personal machines. I have done so many times in the past, but not for these three[1]. This is particularly true for the System76 which not only had drivers pre-installed and the repository configured, but also had no issues out of the box...or ever in my case. Dell had the drivers installed and the repo pre-configured...but out of the box there were some bugs in various drivers at release...but again for me it was a matter of waiting for a fix and just doing a regular `apt-get` update process...none of the typical online support forum crawling I typically am used to. Don't get me wrong, there are many other things that might dissuade you from going the Linux route, but driver headaches of old are largely gone, especially if you get a laptop/desktop with OEM support. [1] Aside for the aforementioned `update` and `upgrade` combination using the `apt-get` packaging system...but the relevant repositories were already configured (or configured automatically as is the case for custom build).
  - nkkollaw 10y ago
    My machine wouldn't boot anymore because I followed apt's suggestion to run apt-get autoremove. There are many packages and apps out there that get released but are far from stable, and no easy way for non-devs (as in Linux devs) to opt out of unstable software. I don't charge a crazy amount of money, but 2 hours are a long time to waste for a developer, and I've wasted many times that with Xenial. That, while being someone used to using the terminal and installing and configuring server software on a daily basis.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
- mcroft 10y ago
  Xubuntu is now my first choice operating system. I have it on 2 desktops (one Dell for work and my home desktop). It also works great on an old Lenovo X-series and a Dell latitude. I can honestly say that the one machine I need to keep Windows 10 on for work causes me hours more grief than my Ubuntu-based machines. For me, the biggest annoyance is having Office365 at work and not being able to use things like Skype etc natively. The web apps are OK and I mostly don't notice, but there are times I wish Ubuntu got the kind of software support from MS that macOS has.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- hcal 10y ago
  I just switched from Macs to a Fedora desktop and never compiled anything. Maybe I've been lucky, but my Lenovo and Dell desktops and my old IBM and new Asus laptops run with no issues. I'm capable of solving most linux driver issues, but I've been pretty impressed that I haven't needed to during my switch. Again, maybe I've been lucky. I was a little disappointed that installing nodejs requires a magic shell script but it didn't require any effort on my part beyond setting similar things up on Mac with Brew (or Brew itself) Otherwise, Fedora's app store has covered my needs. That said, I don't do any graphics work, so maybe you're going to run in to issue I haven't.
- ascendingPig 10y ago
  I have spent more time dealing with compiling from the source and handling weird package interactions on osx than on any linux system I've used recently. At least the Linux system will come with a standard package manager that supports major developer tools.
jameslk 10y ago
> Quick question, when was the last time you did it? Gentoo was circa 2005 and Ubuntu was circa 2012. I spent months trying to make it work, but it was too much. Software ran slower, installing package updates was like playing Minesweeper and worst of all, I had to use Wine. A friend of mine tried it as recently as 2014, then gave up as expected. > Currently I have three full time Linux boxes: I'm glad it works for you. Maybe you have more experience with Linux than I? Or maybe more patience? Or time? Or maybe I'm wrong? Regardless, for my multiple attempts over the course of months trying to make it work, I couldn't stand it. I'm sure others can and I would encourage them to try, at the very least just for the experience. > Let's face it, this MBP just highlights the fact that its target market is not developers or power users. That may be your opinion. Time will tell if its a trend. Given the way things stand today, I don't really see it being the case, at least in the short term. I'm waiting for the next release.
- gshulegaard 10y ago
  > Gentoo was circa 2005 and Ubuntu was circa 2012. I spent months trying to make it work, but it was too much. Software ran slower, installing package updates was like playing Minesweeper and worst of all, I had to use Wine. A friend of mine tried it as recently as 2014, then gave up as expected. Ah cool! The reason I asked is that a lot has changed in the last four years or so. Dell's Sputnik (http://www.dell.com/developers http://www.dell.com/developers) program is the one that specifically comes to my mind. But it is possible to buy a variety of Dell workstation models with Linux pre-installed with support. And according to the recent new product blog (https://bartongeorge.io/2017/01/09/welcome-the-new-ubuntu-based-precision-line-up-mobile-workstations-plus-a-new-all-in-one/ https://bartongeorge.io/2017/01/09/welcome-the-new-ubuntu-ba...) the Sputnik project only released the first 13" DE a little less than 4 years ago. So I was asking since I thought it might be neat to know about some of the changes in the landscape (provided you haven't attempted in a while :) ...) Edit: Forgot to mention, that Dell's efforts generally improve the Linux driver ecosystem as well since they upstream their drivers to the kernel: > as many drivers developed for the laptop are "upstreamed" to the Linux kernel [1] [1] http://www.infoworld.com/article/3046115/linux/love-linux-dude-youre-getting-a-dell.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/3046115/linux/love-linux-du...

fritzw 10y ago

The second you compile one package to get any of those boxes to work, for me, the pro-linux box argument is negated. Particularly for work machines, I don't have time to compile and install just to get my box up and running. Mac worked for me for this reason, I presume the reasons are the same for many. You like the freedom and power your boxes allot you, I like the simple operation of the mac. My problem is Macs are quickly becoming more work with all of there services and issues. When I start having to search for drivers online I might consider switching to Linux, but this won't be a cure all, because I deal too much in graphics.

eikenberry 10y ago
> The second you compile one package to get any of those boxes to work, for me, the pro-linux box argument is negated. This seems a strange things to say considering everyone I know who uses a Mac for dev uses homebrew, which compiles as part of the install.
- robotmlg 10y ago
  Homebrew tries to download a binary for pretty much every package, and only rarely compiles from source.
  - nkkollaw 10y ago
    True. It used to be like that at the beginning, but now it's rare.
- eridius 10y ago
  The "to get any of those boxes to work" part is, I think, the key part of that quoted statement. Homebrew may compile things (if there is no binary download available), but you don't need Homebrew to make your Mac functional.
gshulegaard 10y ago
I guess I implied it in my comment, but I'll explicitly say it here: > I did not search for, manually install, or otherwise fiddle with drivers for any of my current 3 personal machines. I have done so many times in the past, but not for these three[1]. This is particularly true for the System76 which not only had drivers pre-installed and the repository configured, but also had no issues out of the box...or ever in my case. Dell had the drivers installed and the repo pre-configured...but out of the box there were some bugs in various drivers at release...but again for me it was a matter of waiting for a fix and just doing a regular `apt-get` update process...none of the typical online support forum crawling I typically am used to. Don't get me wrong, there are many other things that might dissuade you from going the Linux route, but driver headaches of old are largely gone, especially if you get a laptop/desktop with OEM support. [1] Aside for the aforementioned `update` and `upgrade` combination using the `apt-get` packaging system...but the relevant repositories were already configured (or configured automatically as is the case for custom build).
- nkkollaw 10y ago
  My machine wouldn't boot anymore because I followed apt's suggestion to run apt-get autoremove. There are many packages and apps out there that get released but are far from stable, and no easy way for non-devs (as in Linux devs) to opt out of unstable software. I don't charge a crazy amount of money, but 2 hours are a long time to waste for a developer, and I've wasted many times that with Xenial. That, while being someone used to using the terminal and installing and configuring server software on a daily basis.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
mcroft 10y ago
Xubuntu is now my first choice operating system. I have it on 2 desktops (one Dell for work and my home desktop). It also works great on an old Lenovo X-series and a Dell latitude. I can honestly say that the one machine I need to keep Windows 10 on for work causes me hours more grief than my Ubuntu-based machines. For me, the biggest annoyance is having Office365 at work and not being able to use things like Skype etc natively. The web apps are OK and I mostly don't notice, but there are times I wish Ubuntu got the kind of software support from MS that macOS has.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
hcal 10y ago
I just switched from Macs to a Fedora desktop and never compiled anything. Maybe I've been lucky, but my Lenovo and Dell desktops and my old IBM and new Asus laptops run with no issues. I'm capable of solving most linux driver issues, but I've been pretty impressed that I haven't needed to during my switch. Again, maybe I've been lucky. I was a little disappointed that installing nodejs requires a magic shell script but it didn't require any effort on my part beyond setting similar things up on Mac with Brew (or Brew itself) Otherwise, Fedora's app store has covered my needs. That said, I don't do any graphics work, so maybe you're going to run in to issue I haven't.
ascendingPig 10y ago
I have spent more time dealing with compiling from the source and handling weird package interactions on osx than on any linux system I've used recently. At least the Linux system will come with a standard package manager that supports major developer tools.

jameslk 10y ago

> Quick question, when was the last time you did it? Gentoo was circa 2005 and Ubuntu was circa 2012. I spent months trying to make it work, but it was too much. Software ran slower, installing package updates was like playing Minesweeper and worst of all, I had to use Wine. A friend of mine tried it as recently as 2014, then gave up as expected. > Currently I have three full time Linux boxes: I'm glad it works for you. Maybe you have more experience with Linux than I? Or maybe more patience? Or time? Or maybe I'm wrong? Regardless, for my multiple attempts over the course of months trying to make it work, I couldn't stand it. I'm sure others can and I would encourage them to try, at the very least just for the experience. > Let's face it, this MBP just highlights the fact that its target market is not developers or power users. That may be your opinion. Time will tell if its a trend. Given the way things stand today, I don't really see it being the case, at least in the short term. I'm waiting for the next release.

gshulegaard 10y ago
> Gentoo was circa 2005 and Ubuntu was circa 2012. I spent months trying to make it work, but it was too much. Software ran slower, installing package updates was like playing Minesweeper and worst of all, I had to use Wine. A friend of mine tried it as recently as 2014, then gave up as expected. Ah cool! The reason I asked is that a lot has changed in the last four years or so. Dell's Sputnik (http://www.dell.com/developers http://www.dell.com/developers) program is the one that specifically comes to my mind. But it is possible to buy a variety of Dell workstation models with Linux pre-installed with support. And according to the recent new product blog (https://bartongeorge.io/2017/01/09/welcome-the-new-ubuntu-based-precision-line-up-mobile-workstations-plus-a-new-all-in-one/ https://bartongeorge.io/2017/01/09/welcome-the-new-ubuntu-ba...) the Sputnik project only released the first 13" DE a little less than 4 years ago. So I was asking since I thought it might be neat to know about some of the changes in the landscape (provided you haven't attempted in a while :) ...) Edit: Forgot to mention, that Dell's efforts generally improve the Linux driver ecosystem as well since they upstream their drivers to the kernel: > as many drivers developed for the laptop are "upstreamed" to the Linux kernel [1] [1] http://www.infoworld.com/article/3046115/linux/love-linux-dude-youre-getting-a-dell.html http://www.infoworld.com/article/3046115/linux/love-linux-du...