4 ms·

Apple is definitely a fashion brand - and their marketing tactics and positioning are mostly aspirational - the underlying commodity is tech. This is why Appl

Apple is definitely a fashion brand - and their marketing tactics and positioning are mostly aspirational - the underlying commodity is tech. This is why Apple hired Angela Andrents - who's background is 100% fashion (she re-built Burberry) and 0% technology. Think about that for a moment: the hired their #1 marketing person with ZERO tech background :). Who is the 'other' most powerful person at Apple? It's Johhny Ive - a designer - who is very much in the vein of fashion/design, and understands that ethos. Their store layouts, marketing, pricing strategies - all from luxury fashion. Yes - the build 'quality' products - I agree - and their products are not too far off the spec pricing for similarly 'quality' gear. BUT - I would argue that 'high end spec' is just not relevant for most applications even for development. A decent, middle of the road PC would de-facto provide enough RAM/disk space+speed/CPU to do the job, so long as the form factor is robust enough (and there are a few) - I think they would do just fine. This is a pretty crude but not unreasonable comparison: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-vs-dell-xps-13-apple-macbook-dell-xps-13/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-... The Macbook is 2x the price across 'mostly' equivalent measurements. (I understand there's more to it, but pragmatically, they are pretty close). FYI - Luxury brands specifically price on the high end no matter what, they don't ever go on sale - and unlike most other consumer goods - the perception of value goes down if they ever hit mass market appeal. For luxury goods, there has to be an element of 'status' with the purchase, which is what Apple does very effectively, and obviously. But it's not clothing - so they have to keep up the 'wow' factor, and be 'unquestionably the best', not just in benchmark measurements - but in aspirational terms. Case and point: 'Siri' - what a useless thing. But they packaged it and sold it in a manner that 'wowed' the consumer market. 'It was the future!'. So this needs to continue in order to hold their pricing model. That said, I don't think they're going to crash that far. I'm stuck on Mac, I don't want to go through the pain of switching, and eventually I'll bite the bullet and buy a new Mac, but for the first time in a long while I'm thinking of switching. I'm not doubting that Apple products are pretty good, and that they are not too-too far off given their specs.

dijit 10y ago
It's not a zero-sum game, you can have talented designers and talented engineers working on the same product, as long as they are willing to actually work together. I evidenced an example of a laptop which is equivalent build quality (but is $1,000 more expensive at the same spec without discounts.)
- CamelCaseName 10y ago
  I'm fairly new to ycombinator so perhaps I missed it, but can you link me again to this more expensive but equivalent laptop?
  - dijit 10y ago
    Hey man, no worries: http://i.imgur.com/Gjnr0sw.png http://i.imgur.com/Gjnr0sw.png This is a screenshot of a similarly specced Dell Precision 5510 (which is being replaced with a 5520 hence a 30% discount) Here is the product page to see for yourself. http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m5510-workstation/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m5510-workstatio...
    - dkonofalski 10y ago
      ...Just ignore all the other differences between to the two laptops.
dkonofalski 10y ago
You're talking a bunch of nonsense here. Apple hired Angela Ahrendts to be SVP of Apple Retail. That's why her experience with Burberry was important. She has nothing to do with the tech and development side, only retail. On the other side, Jony Ive isn't just a designer any more than Stephen Hawking is just a scientist. Ive is an industrial designer with heavy, diverse engineering background. His entire purpose is to find a way to cram specs into solidly designed products that support the hardware packed into them. While Apple may be considered a luxury brand, they're definitely not a fashion brand. You seem to be confusing Apple Retail for Apple as a whole.
- edblarney 10y ago
  "You seem to be confusing Apple Retail for Apple as a whole." You seem to misunderstand what Apple is actually selling, what 'Marketing' is and why a 'Designer' is the #2 guy at the company (or was). They are a 'luxury brand' in the 'consumer products' segment - they are not a technology company. [1] "I have always thought of Apple as a luxury brand," said Greg Furman, founder and chairman of The Luxury Marketing Council." "Apple is not a technology company" [2] The company stopped being a tech company over 10 years ago, and this might give you a hint as to why MacBooks have languished as they have moved onto wearables, and toying with cars. [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/15/apple-is-a-luxury-brand-not-a-tech-company.html http://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/15/apple-is-a-luxury-brand-not-a... [2] https://medium.com/chris-messina/silicon-valley-is-all-wrong-about-the-airpods-8204ede08f0f#.od6b716kr https://medium.com/chris-messina/silicon-valley-is-all-wrong...
  - dkonofalski 10y ago
    No, they sell computers, tablets, phones, and digital watches - all tech products. The reason why a "designer" (and I have no idea why you're putting that in quotes) is #2 at the company is because his hands literally touch every product line that they sell. And your dismissal of them as a "luxury brand" (again, no idea why you have quotes) is as ignorant as dismissing Lexus as not being a car company. A "luxury brand" just means that you're not paying for the basic use of the product but for some luxury provided by the product. With Apple you're paying for the luxury of seamlessness and reliability of their technology products. I'm not even going to get into how "consumer products" means nothing except to differentiate who they sell their products to. By that metric, General Mills, Dell, and Ford are all in the "consumer products" segment.

dijit 10y ago

It's not a zero-sum game, you can have talented designers and talented engineers working on the same product, as long as they are willing to actually work together. I evidenced an example of a laptop which is equivalent build quality (but is $1,000 more expensive at the same spec without discounts.)

CamelCaseName 10y ago
I'm fairly new to ycombinator so perhaps I missed it, but can you link me again to this more expensive but equivalent laptop?
- dijit 10y ago
  Hey man, no worries: http://i.imgur.com/Gjnr0sw.png http://i.imgur.com/Gjnr0sw.png This is a screenshot of a similarly specced Dell Precision 5510 (which is being replaced with a 5520 hence a 30% discount) Here is the product page to see for yourself. http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m5510-workstation/pd http://www.dell.com/us/business/p/precision-m5510-workstatio...
  - dkonofalski 10y ago
    ...Just ignore all the other differences between to the two laptops.

dkonofalski 10y ago

You're talking a bunch of nonsense here. Apple hired Angela Ahrendts to be SVP of Apple Retail. That's why her experience with Burberry was important. She has nothing to do with the tech and development side, only retail. On the other side, Jony Ive isn't just a designer any more than Stephen Hawking is just a scientist. Ive is an industrial designer with heavy, diverse engineering background. His entire purpose is to find a way to cram specs into solidly designed products that support the hardware packed into them. While Apple may be considered a luxury brand, they're definitely not a fashion brand. You seem to be confusing Apple Retail for Apple as a whole.

edblarney 10y ago
"You seem to be confusing Apple Retail for Apple as a whole." You seem to misunderstand what Apple is actually selling, what 'Marketing' is and why a 'Designer' is the #2 guy at the company (or was). They are a 'luxury brand' in the 'consumer products' segment - they are not a technology company. [1] "I have always thought of Apple as a luxury brand," said Greg Furman, founder and chairman of The Luxury Marketing Council." "Apple is not a technology company" [2] The company stopped being a tech company over 10 years ago, and this might give you a hint as to why MacBooks have languished as they have moved onto wearables, and toying with cars. [1] http://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/15/apple-is-a-luxury-brand-not-a-tech-company.html http://www.cnbc.com/2013/10/15/apple-is-a-luxury-brand-not-a... [2] https://medium.com/chris-messina/silicon-valley-is-all-wrong-about-the-airpods-8204ede08f0f#.od6b716kr https://medium.com/chris-messina/silicon-valley-is-all-wrong...
- dkonofalski 10y ago
  No, they sell computers, tablets, phones, and digital watches - all tech products. The reason why a "designer" (and I have no idea why you're putting that in quotes) is #2 at the company is because his hands literally touch every product line that they sell. And your dismissal of them as a "luxury brand" (again, no idea why you have quotes) is as ignorant as dismissing Lexus as not being a car company. A "luxury brand" just means that you're not paying for the basic use of the product but for some luxury provided by the product. With Apple you're paying for the luxury of seamlessness and reliability of their technology products. I'm not even going to get into how "consumer products" means nothing except to differentiate who they sell their products to. By that metric, General Mills, Dell, and Ford are all in the "consumer products" segment.