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>Those techniques are what you called "short term solutions." I think of them as long-term preventative measures to stave off the chemical imbalance that can ca

>Those techniques are what you called "short term solutions." I think of them as long-term preventative measures to stave off the chemical imbalance that can cause depression What causes the chemical imbalances? Research on animals show that chronic stress causes depression, so it definitely can be caused by external factors. If your job is causing chronic stress then changing job is obviously a plausible cure for your depression.

rapfaria 10y ago
Not really a cure, but a necessity. You still need treatment.
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  It depends. My own depression was completely cured by lifestyle changes, as was my wife's (different causes for each, but mostly related to jobs).
  - komali2 10y ago
    Treatment doesn't have to be medication or therapy, as I said in my post I consider exercise, meditation, and mindset modifications to be forms of treatment. It's certainly how I handle upticks in depression now that I don't medicate anymore.
eivarv 10y ago
> Research on animals show that chronic stress causes depression... Source? That sounds like an oversimplification in my opinion, as there are some pretty glaring problems with using other animals to model mental illness in humans. Wouldn't the only real analogue be learned helplessness, or am I missing something?
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  See for example: http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v33/n1/abs/1301574a.html http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v33/n1/abs/1301574a.html >there are some pretty glaring problems with using other animals to model mental illness in humans Yes, but the research also looks into stress and depression in human subjects (see above).
  - eivarv 10y ago
    The paper you linked to doesn't really show that "chronic stress causes depression", though. The key sentence in the abstract, I think, is this: Here we provide an overview of the evidence that chronic stress, which can precipitate or exacerbate depression, disrupts neuroplasticity, while antidepressant treatment produces opposing effects and can enhance neuroplasticity. The paper states that stress "contribute[s] to the development of major depression in susceptible individuals", as is well known. It also states that chronic stress correlates with features that are associated with major depressive disorder. Notice there not being any mention of a causal relationship here.
    - cpncrunch 10y ago
      Agreed. I should have said chronic stress can cause depression.
      - eivarv 10y ago
        "Chronic stress can trigger the onset of depression in those predisposed", I would say.
Broken_Hippo 10y ago
To do that, you actually have to both be actually able to find and take a different job plus have the clarity to know that such a thing will improve your situation. And with depression (or anxiety), this isn't so easy. It gets difficult to see opportunities and easier to blame yourself, thinking, "I'm lucky to have this crappy job and that they put up with me". It can make your job seem crappy, even when it isn't. I get to see the way the chemicals affect my brain once a month. Once a month, I think I'm going to lose my job. That people dislike me. That people are suddenly treating me harshly and I must have done something wrong. I consider changing jobs. This is like this even when I enjoy my work and actually like the folks I'm surrounded with. It doesn't stop with work, but is a handy example. I likely should be on anti-depressants half the month - if you've not figured it out, I'm female and this is entirely hormone-related. Instead, I've adjusted life. Once I realize what is going on, I can relax some on the temporary nature of it all. Sometimes it works better than others. The thing is when depression hits, for me, it is much like this. All the freaking time. Work becomes a relief from home, home becomes a relief from work, sleep a relief from it all. I literally don't have the capacity to sort out which things in life to change or what to do next. I get stuck. This is why it is a long-term preventative measure. Gotta catch this stuff before the darkness sets in and messes with your sensors.
- cpncrunch 10y ago
  Depression seems to be caused by both external factors (such as crappy job) and internal thought processes (worrying too much, negative thoughts, etc) or a combination. And some people are just more prone to depression than others. In your case it sounds like some kind of CBT, ACT or mindfulness therapy might be helpful. Hormones are well known to interact with the stress system and exacerbate depression. You make a good point about depression itself causing issues with (for example) your job, making it difficult to know what is the source of the problem. I think the best that people can do in this situation is to take a break from work, and think carefully about what they really want from life.
- komali2 10y ago
  >before the darkness sets in and messes with your sensors I like this language, "messes with your sensors." Depression is a disease within the brain, and naturally it's difficult to observe a system from within that system - especially when those observational tools are affected by the system itself. So it's really hard to know you have depression and take the steps to treat it, when you have depression.

rapfaria 10y ago

Not really a cure, but a necessity. You still need treatment.

cpncrunch 10y ago
It depends. My own depression was completely cured by lifestyle changes, as was my wife's (different causes for each, but mostly related to jobs).
- komali2 10y ago
  Treatment doesn't have to be medication or therapy, as I said in my post I consider exercise, meditation, and mindset modifications to be forms of treatment. It's certainly how I handle upticks in depression now that I don't medicate anymore.

eivarv 10y ago

> Research on animals show that chronic stress causes depression... Source? That sounds like an oversimplification in my opinion, as there are some pretty glaring problems with using other animals to model mental illness in humans. Wouldn't the only real analogue be learned helplessness, or am I missing something?

cpncrunch 10y ago
See for example: http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v33/n1/abs/1301574a.html http://www.nature.com/npp/journal/v33/n1/abs/1301574a.html >there are some pretty glaring problems with using other animals to model mental illness in humans Yes, but the research also looks into stress and depression in human subjects (see above).
- eivarv 10y ago
  The paper you linked to doesn't really show that "chronic stress causes depression", though. The key sentence in the abstract, I think, is this: Here we provide an overview of the evidence that chronic stress, which can precipitate or exacerbate depression, disrupts neuroplasticity, while antidepressant treatment produces opposing effects and can enhance neuroplasticity. The paper states that stress "contribute[s] to the development of major depression in susceptible individuals", as is well known. It also states that chronic stress correlates with features that are associated with major depressive disorder. Notice there not being any mention of a causal relationship here.
  - cpncrunch 10y ago
    Agreed. I should have said chronic stress can cause depression.
    - eivarv 10y ago
      "Chronic stress can trigger the onset of depression in those predisposed", I would say.

Broken_Hippo 10y ago

To do that, you actually have to both be actually able to find and take a different job plus have the clarity to know that such a thing will improve your situation. And with depression (or anxiety), this isn't so easy. It gets difficult to see opportunities and easier to blame yourself, thinking, "I'm lucky to have this crappy job and that they put up with me". It can make your job seem crappy, even when it isn't. I get to see the way the chemicals affect my brain once a month. Once a month, I think I'm going to lose my job. That people dislike me. That people are suddenly treating me harshly and I must have done something wrong. I consider changing jobs. This is like this even when I enjoy my work and actually like the folks I'm surrounded with. It doesn't stop with work, but is a handy example. I likely should be on anti-depressants half the month - if you've not figured it out, I'm female and this is entirely hormone-related. Instead, I've adjusted life. Once I realize what is going on, I can relax some on the temporary nature of it all. Sometimes it works better than others. The thing is when depression hits, for me, it is much like this. All the freaking time. Work becomes a relief from home, home becomes a relief from work, sleep a relief from it all. I literally don't have the capacity to sort out which things in life to change or what to do next. I get stuck. This is why it is a long-term preventative measure. Gotta catch this stuff before the darkness sets in and messes with your sensors.

cpncrunch 10y ago
Depression seems to be caused by both external factors (such as crappy job) and internal thought processes (worrying too much, negative thoughts, etc) or a combination. And some people are just more prone to depression than others. In your case it sounds like some kind of CBT, ACT or mindfulness therapy might be helpful. Hormones are well known to interact with the stress system and exacerbate depression. You make a good point about depression itself causing issues with (for example) your job, making it difficult to know what is the source of the problem. I think the best that people can do in this situation is to take a break from work, and think carefully about what they really want from life.
komali2 10y ago
>before the darkness sets in and messes with your sensors I like this language, "messes with your sensors." Depression is a disease within the brain, and naturally it's difficult to observe a system from within that system - especially when those observational tools are affected by the system itself. So it's really hard to know you have depression and take the steps to treat it, when you have depression.