4 ms·

They are expensive and underpowered. I used to get the top of the line macbook but it's not worth it anymore. It's starts to look like the John Sculley era. I

They are expensive and underpowered. I used to get the top of the line macbook but it's not worth it anymore. It's starts to look like the John Sculley era. If it wasn't for the pro audio support I would jump on the linux boat.

edblarney 10y ago
Apple prices like a luxury item: no sales etc.. But the thing is - tech is not like fashion. You can't just call it 'Gucci' and hold the plebes at bay with high prices. It's utility - so when there is less utility, people will drop apple and go elsewhere. If they want to keep luxury brand status they actually have to provide something of value.
- dijit 10y ago
  This is an odd sentiment to hear on HN. We are usually technical people, surely we can see past "spec" as the only differentiator of two laptops. Apple are priced like a high-end business quality laptop. (except upgrades are a higher mark-up) if you compare laptops based on the quality of their build Apple laptops are quite competitive.[0] That's before you factor in little things that don't seem to make it to business line laptops even like protection against USBKiller[1] and getting BIOS firmware updates 8 years after buying a laptop.[2] It's disingenuous to compare an Apple Macbook with an Acer Aspire on things like specification without taking into account all the little things. If you haven't noticed, spec selling has thoroughly destroyed the bottom end of the laptop market, it's super difficult today to get a decent quality laptop because manufacturers are just throwing out devices with high spec and corner cuts everywhere else. I say this, as a person attempting to buy a Dell Precision 5520. I'm not an apple fanboy, but I appreciate quality. It's not a fashion label. [0] http://i.imgur.com/Gjnr0sw.png http://i.imgur.com/Gjnr0sw.png [1] http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/711745/USB-killer-2-0-Macbook-Pro-Apple-Macbook-Air http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/71174... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201518 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201518
  - edblarney 10y ago
    Apple is definitely a fashion brand - and their marketing tactics and positioning are mostly aspirational - the underlying commodity is tech. This is why Apple hired Angela Andrents - who's background is 100% fashion (she re-built Burberry) and 0% technology. Think about that for a moment: the hired their #1 marketing person with ZERO tech background :). Who is the 'other' most powerful person at Apple? It's Johhny Ive - a designer - who is very much in the vein of fashion/design, and understands that ethos. Their store layouts, marketing, pricing strategies - all from luxury fashion. Yes - the build 'quality' products - I agree - and their products are not too far off the spec pricing for similarly 'quality' gear. BUT - I would argue that 'high end spec' is just not relevant for most applications even for development. A decent, middle of the road PC would de-facto provide enough RAM/disk space+speed/CPU to do the job, so long as the form factor is robust enough (and there are a few) - I think they would do just fine. This is a pretty crude but not unreasonable comparison: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-vs-dell-xps-13-apple-macbook-dell-xps-13/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-... The Macbook is 2x the price across 'mostly' equivalent measurements. (I understand there's more to it, but pragmatically, they are pretty close). FYI - Luxury brands specifically price on the high end no matter what, they don't ever go on sale - and unlike most other consumer goods - the perception of value goes down if they ever hit mass market appeal. For luxury goods, there has to be an element of 'status' with the purchase, which is what Apple does very effectively, and obviously. But it's not clothing - so they have to keep up the 'wow' factor, and be 'unquestionably the best', not just in benchmark measurements - but in aspirational terms. Case and point: 'Siri' - what a useless thing. But they packaged it and sold it in a manner that 'wowed' the consumer market. 'It was the future!'. So this needs to continue in order to hold their pricing model. That said, I don't think they're going to crash that far. I'm stuck on Mac, I don't want to go through the pain of switching, and eventually I'll bite the bullet and buy a new Mac, but for the first time in a long while I'm thinking of switching. I'm not doubting that Apple products are pretty good, and that they are not too-too far off given their specs.
    - dijit 10y ago
      It's not a zero-sum game, you can have talented designers and talented engineers working on the same product, as long as they are willing to actually work together. I evidenced an example of a laptop which is equivalent build quality (but is $1,000 more expensive at the same spec without discounts.)
yardie 10y ago
The John Sculley era Apple was extremely successful. This was the era of the original Mac, Mac II lines, Quadras, Powerbooks, Quicktime, and Hypercard. And turned Apple from a million dollar company to billion dollar one. Near the end they were in too many product categories with overlapping products. Management had lost the plot and it was showing in inventory, staff, and development. I know everyone likes to believe that Apple was always failing when Steve became iCEO but that was not the way it happened.
eecks 10y ago
My mid-2015 macbook pro is still better than the competition in my eyes - with some exceptions like the new Surface books but they are in the same price range.

edblarney 10y ago

Apple prices like a luxury item: no sales etc.. But the thing is - tech is not like fashion. You can't just call it 'Gucci' and hold the plebes at bay with high prices. It's utility - so when there is less utility, people will drop apple and go elsewhere. If they want to keep luxury brand status they actually have to provide something of value.

dijit 10y ago
This is an odd sentiment to hear on HN. We are usually technical people, surely we can see past "spec" as the only differentiator of two laptops. Apple are priced like a high-end business quality laptop. (except upgrades are a higher mark-up) if you compare laptops based on the quality of their build Apple laptops are quite competitive.[0] That's before you factor in little things that don't seem to make it to business line laptops even like protection against USBKiller[1] and getting BIOS firmware updates 8 years after buying a laptop.[2] It's disingenuous to compare an Apple Macbook with an Acer Aspire on things like specification without taking into account all the little things. If you haven't noticed, spec selling has thoroughly destroyed the bottom end of the laptop market, it's super difficult today to get a decent quality laptop because manufacturers are just throwing out devices with high spec and corner cuts everywhere else. I say this, as a person attempting to buy a Dell Precision 5520. I'm not an apple fanboy, but I appreciate quality. It's not a fashion label. [0] http://i.imgur.com/Gjnr0sw.png http://i.imgur.com/Gjnr0sw.png [1] http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/711745/USB-killer-2-0-Macbook-Pro-Apple-Macbook-Air http://www.express.co.uk/life-style/science-technology/71174... [2] https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201518 https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201518
- edblarney 10y ago
  Apple is definitely a fashion brand - and their marketing tactics and positioning are mostly aspirational - the underlying commodity is tech. This is why Apple hired Angela Andrents - who's background is 100% fashion (she re-built Burberry) and 0% technology. Think about that for a moment: the hired their #1 marketing person with ZERO tech background :). Who is the 'other' most powerful person at Apple? It's Johhny Ive - a designer - who is very much in the vein of fashion/design, and understands that ethos. Their store layouts, marketing, pricing strategies - all from luxury fashion. Yes - the build 'quality' products - I agree - and their products are not too far off the spec pricing for similarly 'quality' gear. BUT - I would argue that 'high end spec' is just not relevant for most applications even for development. A decent, middle of the road PC would de-facto provide enough RAM/disk space+speed/CPU to do the job, so long as the form factor is robust enough (and there are a few) - I think they would do just fine. This is a pretty crude but not unreasonable comparison: http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-vs-dell-xps-13-apple-macbook-dell-xps-13/ http://www.digitaltrends.com/computing/apple-macbook-pro-13-... The Macbook is 2x the price across 'mostly' equivalent measurements. (I understand there's more to it, but pragmatically, they are pretty close). FYI - Luxury brands specifically price on the high end no matter what, they don't ever go on sale - and unlike most other consumer goods - the perception of value goes down if they ever hit mass market appeal. For luxury goods, there has to be an element of 'status' with the purchase, which is what Apple does very effectively, and obviously. But it's not clothing - so they have to keep up the 'wow' factor, and be 'unquestionably the best', not just in benchmark measurements - but in aspirational terms. Case and point: 'Siri' - what a useless thing. But they packaged it and sold it in a manner that 'wowed' the consumer market. 'It was the future!'. So this needs to continue in order to hold their pricing model. That said, I don't think they're going to crash that far. I'm stuck on Mac, I don't want to go through the pain of switching, and eventually I'll bite the bullet and buy a new Mac, but for the first time in a long while I'm thinking of switching. I'm not doubting that Apple products are pretty good, and that they are not too-too far off given their specs.
  - dijit 10y ago
    It's not a zero-sum game, you can have talented designers and talented engineers working on the same product, as long as they are willing to actually work together. I evidenced an example of a laptop which is equivalent build quality (but is $1,000 more expensive at the same spec without discounts.)

yardie 10y ago

The John Sculley era Apple was extremely successful. This was the era of the original Mac, Mac II lines, Quadras, Powerbooks, Quicktime, and Hypercard. And turned Apple from a million dollar company to billion dollar one. Near the end they were in too many product categories with overlapping products. Management had lost the plot and it was showing in inventory, staff, and development. I know everyone likes to believe that Apple was always failing when Steve became iCEO but that was not the way it happened.

eecks 10y ago

My mid-2015 macbook pro is still better than the competition in my eyes - with some exceptions like the new Surface books but they are in the same price range.