8 ms·

This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depre

by ejfox 10y ago

This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." Depression may be affected by real life problems but it is more life-enveloping than that. I've been the most depressed at times in my life when things were going objectively great. The people who asked "what's making you sad?" or tried to "fix" my "problems" were the least helpful.

sixo 10y ago
These terms are tricky. I wrote the above because I wish a message like that had gotten through to me (probably just saying it isn't sufficient) at any point in the ~half my life so far where I was, according to this terminology, sad by some circumstance like the above, but also depressed basically I think as a result of being sad and basically having surrendered to it as an inevitable thing: life was by any reasonable measure going well, but I was never happy with it. Some of the above examples reflect my experience, some the experiences of other depressed people I've known. Likely this does not apply to all (maybe most) cases of depression, maybe it wouldn't have helped mine. But I basically feel now, with most of it behind me - I hope - that I never really realized that these sorts of problems could be addressed, or felt ashamed of being unhappy with my situation and therefore decided they didn't deserve to be fixed.
mkagenius 10y ago
That quote seemed wrong, the parent comment actually tries to make that correct. > The people who asked "what's making you sad?" or tried to "fix" my "problems" were the least helpful. That's why parent comment says to seek professional help. I believe they wouldn't ask or say those things.
Alex3917 10y ago
> "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." Sadness is the feeling you get when something bad happens and you are upset about it. Depression is the feeling you get from brain inflammation, which might feel qualitatively similar to sadness, but which is usually caused by one or more of: chronic stress, lack of exercise, nutritional deficiency, poor sleep habits, lack of sensory stimulation, infection, or twenty other things. Once you can differentiate between them, depression isn't actually that hard to fix, at least at the early stages. It's like right now if I were to gain five pounds I'd get acid reflux, but I know that, so if that starts happening I just stop eating as much for a couple days and the problem fixes itself. Same deal with mental states.
- yellowapple 10y ago
  [citation needed] ^ In particular, it looks like you're mixing up cause and effect, and I haven't the slightest idea from where you're getting the "brain inflammation" thing (it sure as hell ain't in the DSM-IV, last I checked (it's been awhile, granted, but still)).
  - Alex3917 10y ago
    > I haven't the slightest idea where you're getting the "brain inflammation" thing from http://lmgtfy.com/?q=inflammation+depression http://lmgtfy.com/?q=inflammation+depression
    - ajkjk 10y ago
      You shouldn't post this way on this site. You're claiming matter-of-factly that brain inflammation causes depression. Well, I (we) don't believe you, because that's a far from widely accepted theory. Your condescending google links don't help.
      - Alex3917 10y ago
        > Your condescending google links don't help Which I posted in response to getting blatantly gaslighted. I don't care if you disagree with me, but pretending you don't know how to use Google to try to discredit someone is a lame debating technique.
        ajkjk 10y ago
        You weren't gaslighted. That's not what that word means. And everyone here knows how to use google. The problem here is that you said "Depression is the feeling you get from brain inflammation" instead of "there's a theory that depression is sometimes linked to brain inflammation". The former is far from factual, and it's dead wrong to claim it matter-of-factly. Totally not surprisingly, when you google brain inflammation and depression, you get lots of references that suggest a possible link and none that justify claiming it as a fact. So, [citation still needed], and it's not because we're bad at using google.
jdietrich 10y ago
>This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." There's no mention of that in the DSM or the ICD. People with miserable lives can still be depressed; people can have miserable lives without recognising that their lives are miserable. There is no such thing as an "objectively great" life; attempting to define the quality of your life in reference to fixed external criteria is arguably pathological in itself. Part of living a good life is developing an individual and personal sense of what is valuable and meaningful. The current gold standard of treatment for depression, cognitive behavioural therapy, is in large part a coaching programme to encourage patients to do things to improve their lives. The cognitive aspect of CBT is secondary to the behavioural aspect - cognitive and metacognitive skills are taught in order to facilitate behavioural change.
- mmirate 10y ago
  > attempting to define the quality of your life in reference to fixed external criteria is arguably pathological in itself Isn't this merely inaccurate rather than pathological, since external criteria are almost never fixed? (cf. inflation)
- lightedman 10y ago
  "There's no mention of that in the DSM" The DSM changes so often that I wouldn't really rely upon it for a definition.
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  - yellowapple 10y ago
    Our understanding of psychology and the human brain changes so often that I'd have a hard time trusting a source that hasn't been recently updated. Even with that said, the average time between DSM revisions is, what, every 15 years, give or take? I wouldn't exactly call that "often".
lobotryas 10y ago
I try to be very respectful about the topic of depression precisely because of the many things you write. That said, there has to be some more gradation between the extremes of "sad" and "depressed". I say this because there were many times in life I was "sad" for a very long period of time and it took a lot more effort to exit that nose dive than going to bed and waking up with a fresh perspective on life.
mrec 10y ago
Agreed, although it's worth noting that even if you can climb out, it's going to be a lot harder to stay out of depression if the next rung up is something like Freud's "ordinary misery", as opposed to your "objectively great".
potatototo 10y ago
> The people who asked "what's making you sad?" or tried to "fix" my "problems" were the least helpful. As someone who lives with someone depressed, I find myself guilty of doing this and I don't know any other way to be present for that person. What kind of approaches have you found helpful?
- dvt 10y ago
  Depression is a sort of severe introspection where your thoughts (often negative) take over. The solution tends to be getting your mind off things. Instead of asking "why sad," try to simply do things with the person that will get their mind off their own negative feedback loop. This is easier said than done, and if the depression is lasting for weeks or months, I suggest seeing a mental care professional.
  - ars 10y ago
    I agree. The best way to deal with true depressions (which is not caused by circumstance) is to simply do things. Anything. (But not passive things like watch something, or read something.) Make something, drive, hike, volunteer, clean, garden. Whatever. You can help them by thinking of what activity they often do, and doing it with them. But remember to think of what they do, not what you do.
- robertbaruch 10y ago
  I've found Zoloft helpful for my depression.
infogulch 10y ago
The problem is that long-term sadness and depression feel very similar and they can be difficult to distinguish. Sometimes you can feel sad about some situation in your life and not even realize it. Or feel sad about something but you're suppressing it because of social pressure. These can look like depression. Take a really hard look to find things that are making you sad. Especially things you're telling yourself that you're not sad about. If you find it, fix it like GP says. If you don't find it, pursue depression treatments such as the post.
cpncrunch 10y ago
The article clearly shows that in his case, his depression was caused/triggered by life events. Clearly in his case things weren't "going well", as he had just been fired from his job.
ZeroFries 10y ago
- This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." That just means you cannot identify the reason you're feeling depressed. If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed.
- ars 10y ago
  > If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed. Sorry, but that just isn't true. People can be depressed for no reason whatsoever. See my reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13367913 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13367913
- iak8god 10y ago
  > If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed. This is tautological, and hence true, but an uninteresting point. Just pretend it says "... Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well except of course for the disorder in your brain."
  - ZeroFries 10y ago
    No, I'm saying depression is when you feel down but cannot account for the cause. - Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well except of course for the disorder in your brain." I'm saying this is not a possible situation. The disorder is a result of things not going well, including your own physical health.
    - iak8god 10y ago
      Oh. Well, no, that's not what depression is. That's what sometimes causes people who are not clinically depressed to say "I'm depressed about X," but that's not what depression is.
- cgriswald 10y ago
  Sometimes the reason you are feeling depressed has nothing to do with how things are going. My depression was caused by things that had happened in the past and that I didn't spend any time consciously thinking about. Dealing with that stuff took some work, but once I did, my depression lifted and hasn't returned. Depression means, even if things are going well, you can't feel good about it.

by ejfox 10y ago

sixo 10y ago

These terms are tricky. I wrote the above because I wish a message like that had gotten through to me (probably just saying it isn't sufficient) at any point in the ~half my life so far where I was, according to this terminology, sad by some circumstance like the above, but also depressed basically I think as a result of being sad and basically having surrendered to it as an inevitable thing: life was by any reasonable measure going well, but I was never happy with it. Some of the above examples reflect my experience, some the experiences of other depressed people I've known. Likely this does not apply to all (maybe most) cases of depression, maybe it wouldn't have helped mine. But I basically feel now, with most of it behind me - I hope - that I never really realized that these sorts of problems could be addressed, or felt ashamed of being unhappy with my situation and therefore decided they didn't deserve to be fixed.

mkagenius 10y ago

That quote seemed wrong, the parent comment actually tries to make that correct. > The people who asked "what's making you sad?" or tried to "fix" my "problems" were the least helpful. That's why parent comment says to seek professional help. I believe they wouldn't ask or say those things.

Alex3917 10y ago

> "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." Sadness is the feeling you get when something bad happens and you are upset about it. Depression is the feeling you get from brain inflammation, which might feel qualitatively similar to sadness, but which is usually caused by one or more of: chronic stress, lack of exercise, nutritional deficiency, poor sleep habits, lack of sensory stimulation, infection, or twenty other things. Once you can differentiate between them, depression isn't actually that hard to fix, at least at the early stages. It's like right now if I were to gain five pounds I'd get acid reflux, but I know that, so if that starts happening I just stop eating as much for a couple days and the problem fixes itself. Same deal with mental states.

yellowapple 10y ago
[citation needed] ^ In particular, it looks like you're mixing up cause and effect, and I haven't the slightest idea from where you're getting the "brain inflammation" thing (it sure as hell ain't in the DSM-IV, last I checked (it's been awhile, granted, but still)).
- Alex3917 10y ago
  > I haven't the slightest idea where you're getting the "brain inflammation" thing from http://lmgtfy.com/?q=inflammation+depression http://lmgtfy.com/?q=inflammation+depression
  - ajkjk 10y ago
    You shouldn't post this way on this site. You're claiming matter-of-factly that brain inflammation causes depression. Well, I (we) don't believe you, because that's a far from widely accepted theory. Your condescending google links don't help.
    - Alex3917 10y ago
      > Your condescending google links don't help Which I posted in response to getting blatantly gaslighted. I don't care if you disagree with me, but pretending you don't know how to use Google to try to discredit someone is a lame debating technique.
      - ajkjk 10y ago
        You weren't gaslighted. That's not what that word means. And everyone here knows how to use google. The problem here is that you said "Depression is the feeling you get from brain inflammation" instead of "there's a theory that depression is sometimes linked to brain inflammation". The former is far from factual, and it's dead wrong to claim it matter-of-factly. Totally not surprisingly, when you google brain inflammation and depression, you get lots of references that suggest a possible link and none that justify claiming it as a fact. So, [citation still needed], and it's not because we're bad at using google.

jdietrich 10y ago

>This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." There's no mention of that in the DSM or the ICD. People with miserable lives can still be depressed; people can have miserable lives without recognising that their lives are miserable. There is no such thing as an "objectively great" life; attempting to define the quality of your life in reference to fixed external criteria is arguably pathological in itself. Part of living a good life is developing an individual and personal sense of what is valuable and meaningful. The current gold standard of treatment for depression, cognitive behavioural therapy, is in large part a coaching programme to encourage patients to do things to improve their lives. The cognitive aspect of CBT is secondary to the behavioural aspect - cognitive and metacognitive skills are taught in order to facilitate behavioural change.

mmirate 10y ago
> attempting to define the quality of your life in reference to fixed external criteria is arguably pathological in itself Isn't this merely inaccurate rather than pathological, since external criteria are almost never fixed? (cf. inflation)
lightedman 10y ago
"There's no mention of that in the DSM" The DSM changes so often that I wouldn't really rely upon it for a definition.
- deleted 10y ago
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- deleted 10y ago
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- yellowapple 10y ago
  Our understanding of psychology and the human brain changes so often that I'd have a hard time trusting a source that hasn't been recently updated. Even with that said, the average time between DSM revisions is, what, every 15 years, give or take? I wouldn't exactly call that "often".

lobotryas 10y ago

I try to be very respectful about the topic of depression precisely because of the many things you write. That said, there has to be some more gradation between the extremes of "sad" and "depressed". I say this because there were many times in life I was "sad" for a very long period of time and it took a lot more effort to exit that nose dive than going to bed and waking up with a fresh perspective on life.

mrec 10y ago

Agreed, although it's worth noting that even if you can climb out, it's going to be a lot harder to stay out of depression if the next rung up is something like Freud's "ordinary misery", as opposed to your "objectively great".

potatototo 10y ago

> The people who asked "what's making you sad?" or tried to "fix" my "problems" were the least helpful. As someone who lives with someone depressed, I find myself guilty of doing this and I don't know any other way to be present for that person. What kind of approaches have you found helpful?

dvt 10y ago
Depression is a sort of severe introspection where your thoughts (often negative) take over. The solution tends to be getting your mind off things. Instead of asking "why sad," try to simply do things with the person that will get their mind off their own negative feedback loop. This is easier said than done, and if the depression is lasting for weeks or months, I suggest seeing a mental care professional.
- ars 10y ago
  I agree. The best way to deal with true depressions (which is not caused by circumstance) is to simply do things. Anything. (But not passive things like watch something, or read something.) Make something, drive, hike, volunteer, clean, garden. Whatever. You can help them by thinking of what activity they often do, and doing it with them. But remember to think of what they do, not what you do.
robertbaruch 10y ago
I've found Zoloft helpful for my depression.

infogulch 10y ago

The problem is that long-term sadness and depression feel very similar and they can be difficult to distinguish. Sometimes you can feel sad about some situation in your life and not even realize it. Or feel sad about something but you're suppressing it because of social pressure. These can look like depression. Take a really hard look to find things that are making you sad. Especially things you're telling yourself that you're not sad about. If you find it, fix it like GP says. If you don't find it, pursue depression treatments such as the post.

cpncrunch 10y ago

The article clearly shows that in his case, his depression was caused/triggered by life events. Clearly in his case things weren't "going well", as he had just been fired from his job.

ZeroFries 10y ago

- This is advice for sadness, not depression. This is the opening quote in the article: "Sadness is when you feel down because things aren’t going your way. Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well." That just means you cannot identify the reason you're feeling depressed. If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed.

ars 10y ago
> If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed. Sorry, but that just isn't true. People can be depressed for no reason whatsoever. See my reply here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13367913 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13367913
iak8god 10y ago
> If everything was going well (including your own health), you would not be depressed. This is tautological, and hence true, but an uninteresting point. Just pretend it says "... Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well except of course for the disorder in your brain."
- ZeroFries 10y ago
  No, I'm saying depression is when you feel down but cannot account for the cause. - Depression is when you feel down even when all is going well except of course for the disorder in your brain." I'm saying this is not a possible situation. The disorder is a result of things not going well, including your own physical health.
  - iak8god 10y ago
    Oh. Well, no, that's not what depression is. That's what sometimes causes people who are not clinically depressed to say "I'm depressed about X," but that's not what depression is.
cgriswald 10y ago
Sometimes the reason you are feeling depressed has nothing to do with how things are going. My depression was caused by things that had happened in the past and that I didn't spend any time consciously thinking about. Dealing with that stuff took some work, but once I did, my depression lifted and hasn't returned. Depression means, even if things are going well, you can't feel good about it.