5 ms·

I've forgotten the precise number, but something like 75% of 'convictions' currently arise from plea bargains and not trials. As such, these overreach practice

I've forgotten the precise number, but something like 75% of 'convictions' currently arise from plea bargains and not trials. As such, these overreach practices usually escape judicial review, and especially so if the punishment is light (a fine but no jail time). The only cure for this practice is for a civil rights defense resource like ACLU or EFF to invite those prosecuted to take the case to trial and then appeal verdicts until the practice receives the official rebuff it so richly deserves.

abecedarius 10y ago
"97 percent of federal cases and 94 percent of state cases end in plea bargains" -- http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/stronger-hand-for-judges-after-rulings-on-plea-deals.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/stronger-hand-for-judge... which does not seem to give a source.
- fennecfoxen 10y ago
  Still better than Japan, where 97% of cases end in a confession. http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21679472-suspects-japanese-police-cells-are-far-too-vulnerable-abuse-forced-confess http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21679472-suspects-japa... And the prisons are clean, well lit, dehumanizing psychological torture chambers. http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21679483-why-you-might-prefer-bangkok-jail-one-chiba-silent-screams http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21679483-why-you-might-pr...
  - ue_ 10y ago
    I have known about this for a while, and it's so horrible. I've wanted to work in Japan for a while.
Zancarius 10y ago
One of the times I was on jury duty, we sat in the pool room for about 3 hours during which each of the 7 trials scheduled on that day fell through and ended in a plea bargain. We were dismissed before noon after a brief explanation. Of course, this is just a single data point, and take it as you will. It only happened once during my service, but it did happen. As such, I'd find your 75% figure believable. This was a local district court, and I guarantee nearly all of those were drug-related charges.
digler999 10y ago
I think a social network campaign, starting with the poorest people who are in-and-out of the judicial system frequently, would have a massive effect. There is strength in numbers, and if somehow everyone being prosecuted stood up and said "no, I demand a trial" (aside from the oft-debated hypothetical about fighting speeding tickets - I dont want to get into that), they couldn't prosecute everyone. They just dont have the resources. They'd have to let a sizeable amount of the accused walk.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  True, but I think social network campaign is not enough. You'd need something stronger, that would connect the people to each other. An union of some kind, maybe. Coordination is hard to create, especially when stakes are high and you have a first-mover disadvantage - before the system overloads, the first few people to stand up will likely have the book thrown at them.
  - digler999 10y ago
    Even homeless people are on facebook. All it would need is a popular slogan (and a rationale of why you follow the slogan, i.e. that poor people are being oppressed by the judicial system and the most effective way to fight it is to not plea bargain). Everyone knows the phrase "black lives matter" and I'd wager that their campaign spread on social media. [ let me be clear, I only mention blm due to the commonness of the phrase, and not the outrageous things that have been done under their auspices ]. I dont know much about marketing, but the notion of "I demand a trial" would need a very simple catch phrase outlining an entire campaign. A clear, concise idea that is implanted in someone's mind even during the stressful process of being booked into jail. It would need to be slogan or motto (I think) to work en-masse.
- marme 10y ago
  plea deals should just be outlawed. They only benefit the government and hurt the poor. If every felony had to be taken to trial the government would be quick to stop wasting their time arresting people for a single crack rock or other petty drug crimes. For people who plead guilty you can let the judge show leniency on them but most people would clearly fight things they were not guilty of if there was no incentive to plea to a lesser charge. It is the same with why most patent trolls are successful because it is easy to just pay them than to fight. If you make it so fighting and accepting it have the same risk than more people would fight

abecedarius 10y ago

"97 percent of federal cases and 94 percent of state cases end in plea bargains" -- http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/stronger-hand-for-judges-after-rulings-on-plea-deals.html http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/23/us/stronger-hand-for-judge... which does not seem to give a source.

fennecfoxen 10y ago
Still better than Japan, where 97% of cases end in a confession. http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21679472-suspects-japanese-police-cells-are-far-too-vulnerable-abuse-forced-confess http://www.economist.com/news/leaders/21679472-suspects-japa... And the prisons are clean, well lit, dehumanizing psychological torture chambers. http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21679483-why-you-might-prefer-bangkok-jail-one-chiba-silent-screams http://www.economist.com/news/asia/21679483-why-you-might-pr...
- ue_ 10y ago
  I have known about this for a while, and it's so horrible. I've wanted to work in Japan for a while.

Zancarius 10y ago

One of the times I was on jury duty, we sat in the pool room for about 3 hours during which each of the 7 trials scheduled on that day fell through and ended in a plea bargain. We were dismissed before noon after a brief explanation. Of course, this is just a single data point, and take it as you will. It only happened once during my service, but it did happen. As such, I'd find your 75% figure believable. This was a local district court, and I guarantee nearly all of those were drug-related charges.

digler999 10y ago

I think a social network campaign, starting with the poorest people who are in-and-out of the judicial system frequently, would have a massive effect. There is strength in numbers, and if somehow everyone being prosecuted stood up and said "no, I demand a trial" (aside from the oft-debated hypothetical about fighting speeding tickets - I dont want to get into that), they couldn't prosecute everyone. They just dont have the resources. They'd have to let a sizeable amount of the accused walk.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
True, but I think social network campaign is not enough. You'd need something stronger, that would connect the people to each other. An union of some kind, maybe. Coordination is hard to create, especially when stakes are high and you have a first-mover disadvantage - before the system overloads, the first few people to stand up will likely have the book thrown at them.
- digler999 10y ago
  Even homeless people are on facebook. All it would need is a popular slogan (and a rationale of why you follow the slogan, i.e. that poor people are being oppressed by the judicial system and the most effective way to fight it is to not plea bargain). Everyone knows the phrase "black lives matter" and I'd wager that their campaign spread on social media. [ let me be clear, I only mention blm due to the commonness of the phrase, and not the outrageous things that have been done under their auspices ]. I dont know much about marketing, but the notion of "I demand a trial" would need a very simple catch phrase outlining an entire campaign. A clear, concise idea that is implanted in someone's mind even during the stressful process of being booked into jail. It would need to be slogan or motto (I think) to work en-masse.
marme 10y ago
plea deals should just be outlawed. They only benefit the government and hurt the poor. If every felony had to be taken to trial the government would be quick to stop wasting their time arresting people for a single crack rock or other petty drug crimes. For people who plead guilty you can let the judge show leniency on them but most people would clearly fight things they were not guilty of if there was no incentive to plea to a lesser charge. It is the same with why most patent trolls are successful because it is easy to just pay them than to fight. If you make it so fighting and accepting it have the same risk than more people would fight