5 ms·

How do you make something like air quality a private good? My point is that it seems like there are many times when I don't see how you could apply the solution

How do you make something like air quality a private good? My point is that it seems like there are many times when I don't see how you could apply the solution of private property.

oskarth 10y ago
I haven't read it in detail, but here's the gist from Mises Institute articles that touch on air pollution [1]: > In sum, no one has a right to clean air, but one does have a right to not have his air invaded by pollutants generated by an aggressor. Also see this quote [2]: > There is, first of all, this stark empirical fact: Government ownership, even socialism, has proved to be no solution to the problem of pollution. Even the most starry-eyed proponents of government planning concede that the poisoning of Lake Baikal in the Soviet Union is a monument to heedless industrial pollution of a valuable natural resource. But there is far more to the problem than that. Note, for example, the two crucial areas in which pollution has become an important problem: the air and the waterways, particularly the rivers. But these are precisely two of the vital areas in society in which private property has not been permitted to function. Agree or disagree, this is the typical libertarian response to externalities as far as I know. There's probably more to it w.r.t to public goods as "naturally given", and when something turns into private property, if you are look further into the literature. 1: https://mises.org/library/law-property-rights-and-air-pollution#11 https://mises.org/library/law-property-rights-and-air-pollut... 2: https://mises.org/library/libertarian-manifesto-pollution https://mises.org/library/libertarian-manifesto-pollution EDIT: I'm assuming the question is in good faith. To understand libertarian thought in general and their views on property rights and how contracts organically occur, refer to a primer book by someone like Rothbard. It has nothing to do with denying the social domain of humanity.
- moultano 10y ago
  LOL, let me personally draw up a contract with every commuter on the neighboring highway to demand compensation for invading my rights. I'm sure we'll come to an amicable and just agreement. Somehow, libertarians get through life without ever becoming aware of the existence of transaction costs. I don't know how they do it.
  - antisthenes 10y ago
    > I don't know how they do it. Just like the other 95% of people: complete economic illiteracy.
  - davidivadavid 10y ago
    Isn't that just a toll road?
    - moultano 10y ago
      A toll road that somehow measures the emissions of the passing vehicles and charges them proportional to their particulate matter content. Maybe someday...
- dontreact 10y ago
  I believe your argument is that libertarians frame adjusting for externalities as defending rights? If so, then doing so still requires cooperation. I was responding to a comment which seemed to claim that private property was an alternative to social cooperation.
monort 10y ago
Air quality is a bad example, it's a public good only for the reason that you can't sue those, who pollute air at your private property.
- chrishacken 10y ago
  I'm no lawyer, but I would think if you provided sufficient evidence that someone was causing irregular levels of pollution at your private property you'd likely be able to sue them.
  - monort 10y ago
    Can you sue owners of gasoline cars or a coal power station nearby? They are allowed to pollute and not to pay for their externalities.
    - chrishacken 10y ago
      If you owned your home prior to them building the plant, I'd imagine you probably can. (Again, not a lawyer.) However, I was thinking more along the lines of your neighbor installing a coal furnace next door and turning your house black.

How do you make something like air quality a private good? My point is that it seems like there are many times when I don't see how you could apply the solution of private property.

oskarth 10y ago

I haven't read it in detail, but here's the gist from Mises Institute articles that touch on air pollution [1]: > In sum, no one has a right to clean air, but one does have a right to not have his air invaded by pollutants generated by an aggressor. Also see this quote [2]: > There is, first of all, this stark empirical fact: Government ownership, even socialism, has proved to be no solution to the problem of pollution. Even the most starry-eyed proponents of government planning concede that the poisoning of Lake Baikal in the Soviet Union is a monument to heedless industrial pollution of a valuable natural resource. But there is far more to the problem than that. Note, for example, the two crucial areas in which pollution has become an important problem: the air and the waterways, particularly the rivers. But these are precisely two of the vital areas in society in which private property has not been permitted to function. Agree or disagree, this is the typical libertarian response to externalities as far as I know. There's probably more to it w.r.t to public goods as "naturally given", and when something turns into private property, if you are look further into the literature. 1: https://mises.org/library/law-property-rights-and-air-pollution#11 https://mises.org/library/law-property-rights-and-air-pollut... 2: https://mises.org/library/libertarian-manifesto-pollution https://mises.org/library/libertarian-manifesto-pollution EDIT: I'm assuming the question is in good faith. To understand libertarian thought in general and their views on property rights and how contracts organically occur, refer to a primer book by someone like Rothbard. It has nothing to do with denying the social domain of humanity.

moultano 10y ago
LOL, let me personally draw up a contract with every commuter on the neighboring highway to demand compensation for invading my rights. I'm sure we'll come to an amicable and just agreement. Somehow, libertarians get through life without ever becoming aware of the existence of transaction costs. I don't know how they do it.
- antisthenes 10y ago
  > I don't know how they do it. Just like the other 95% of people: complete economic illiteracy.
- davidivadavid 10y ago
  Isn't that just a toll road?
  - moultano 10y ago
    A toll road that somehow measures the emissions of the passing vehicles and charges them proportional to their particulate matter content. Maybe someday...
dontreact 10y ago
I believe your argument is that libertarians frame adjusting for externalities as defending rights? If so, then doing so still requires cooperation. I was responding to a comment which seemed to claim that private property was an alternative to social cooperation.

monort 10y ago

Air quality is a bad example, it's a public good only for the reason that you can't sue those, who pollute air at your private property.

chrishacken 10y ago
I'm no lawyer, but I would think if you provided sufficient evidence that someone was causing irregular levels of pollution at your private property you'd likely be able to sue them.
- monort 10y ago
  Can you sue owners of gasoline cars or a coal power station nearby? They are allowed to pollute and not to pay for their externalities.
  - chrishacken 10y ago
    If you owned your home prior to them building the plant, I'd imagine you probably can. (Again, not a lawyer.) However, I was thinking more along the lines of your neighbor installing a coal furnace next door and turning your house black.