4 ms·

So sick of this white privilege nonsense. Should you have guilt that the people around you loved and cared for you, encouraged you? Did wearing hand-me-down cl

So sick of this white privilege nonsense. Should you have guilt that the people around you loved and cared for you, encouraged you? Did wearing hand-me-down clothes prevent others from doing the same? Did your parents having dinner with you stop other parents for doing the same for their kids? Did your parents staying married and (likely) having you while married stop others from making those same choices to their children's advantage? And on and on. Yes, things happen in nearly everyone's lives that help them and all success takes some measure of luck and bravery, but how many people were in your exact same position and ended up somewhere else?

cubecul 10y ago
You're taking an all-or-nothing view. I don't think anyone is saying it's 100% attributable to your background / environment. They are just saying it's not 100% attributable to individual work and effort.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  Stone soup. I'm not saying the flavor all comes from the stone...
JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Those things were in some degree possible, because our economic system was designed around supporting our parents. There were bank accounts, and mortgages, and job security for our parents. To a greater degree than others' of course; by no means is every white person perfectly protected. But the system is, by the 'white privilege' mindset, rigged to favor one class over another. Then it becomes less of a guilt thing, than a 'recognize a systemic bias' thing. I agree, the very term 'white privilege' is intended to offend. I think it was chosen because its effective in prodding the middle class into thinking about the issues?
- zacharytelschow 10y ago
  Does it have anything to do with class/systematic bias or is it truly a behavioral issue? Generational choices will affect you, just as your choices will affect your children. Studies show that if you wait to have kids until marriage, don't do drugs, finish high school, and work you will be in the middle class in the US - a pretty privileged place to be on a global basis. And those choices will have a positive impact on your kids as well. There's no denying some people have advantages, but everyone has a chance to get ahead and better their situation and the lives of their children. And I think that's what really bothers me about the "privilege" point of view - it pushes people to justify their situation based on the hand they were dealt, not what they did with it. Based on the stats, the system is rigged to favor one class: Asians. Earnings, credit scores, advanced degrees, longevity - Americans of Asian descent are kicking butt in every category. Those darn founding Asians shouldn't have set up the system to favor their progeny. And the white poor really need to start using their privilege correctly.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    Waiting to have kids, avoiding drugs, finishing high school are all easy to do if you start out in a middle-class neighborhood with two-parent families, clean streets and good schools with community support. E.g. easy to say "just stay in school!" from our suburban ivory tower, miles away from the dangerous decaying underfunded overcrowded inner city schools. Its this blindness to the problems and issues of growing up a minority in a poor area, that leads to victim-blaming. Remember, we're talking about kids. They aren't going to make all the good choices if there's nobody home in the poor single-parent household to guide them.
    - Chris2048 10y ago
      Are you talking about race? > They aren't going to make all the good choices if there's nobody home in the poor single-parent household to guide them. Good point. How do you fix this?
      - zacharytelschow 10y ago
saint_fiasco 10y ago
If you are looking at this as a way of measuring virtue-points and deciding how much we should admire the writer, you are correct in that it is nonsense. However if you want to encourage other people to become entrepreneurs, or give advice to some new entrepreneur, it's important to remember that you can't just read on what successful entrepreneurs did and tell them to copy from them. Their techniques might have worked because of dumb luck (survivor bias) or because of some advantage they took for granted (privilege) That's why people caring about privilege isn't always nonsense. They want to know which factors of success can be imitated, and how to compensate for the factors that cannot.
isleyaardvark 10y ago
I don't see where the author says anything like that, quite the opposite. "Did wearing hand-me-down clothes prevent others from doing the same?" Him personally, no. The point of his article is that part of the reason his parents could give him these advantages is because the were white and not affected by racism. Likewise you could ask "how many people were in your exact same position and ended up somewhere else?", but he's asking "how many people weren't in your exact same position, due to the racism of the past, and ended up somewhere else?"
- zacharytelschow 10y ago
  "The point of his article is that part of the reason his parents could give him these advantages is because the were white and not affected by racism." My mistake. I didn't realize it was being white that allowed his parents to have him after marriage, stay married, and provide him with hand-me-down clothes. If only I had known the melanin levels in your skin had such an affect on behavior!
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Where did you read that his parents had him after marriage?
  - isleyaardvark 10y ago
    I said part of the reason. It should be uncontroversial that racism can and has impacted parents' ability to provide for their children. And I don't appreciate your snarky tone. It's uncalled for.
- Chris2048 10y ago
  > reason his parents could give him these advantages is because the were white and not affected by racism The things mentioned are things not affected by racism. There are no racists encouraging blacks not to marry.
  - isleyaardvark 10y ago
bbctol 10y ago
The author doesn't mention guilt. For some reason, every time someone says "privilege," there are people who hear "YOU SHOULD FEEL GUILTY!" even when that's not remotely what's being said. Acknowledging privilege doesn't mean feeling bad about it, it means that when trying to understand why something happened (in this case, why a startup was successful) it's important to remember that not everyone started on even footing. You can feel guilty about other people having less than you if you really want to, but the author isn't suggesting that.
- jasford 10y ago
  Yes! As the author of this article I was completely thrown off when a handful of people responded to with comments about guilt. I don't feel guilty at all for the privilege I have received, and I really tried hard to not come off as guilty-feeling in the tone of the article. It is unfortunate that so many people jump immediately to feelings of guilt when considering privilege. A better response would be thankfulness for blessings received that you did not deserve and that not everyone gets. No matter your position in life, there are people who have been given more than you and less than you. I think the only useful response to understanding this reality is to feel thankful for what you have been given and to work to help others who received less.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
jasford 10y ago
Author here. First off, I didn't use the phrase "white privilege" in the article at all. Privilege is a combination of factors. In my case some of those come from being White. Some come from being male. Some from being an American. Others from parents and grandparents on my side of the family and my wife's working hard so that they could have something to hand down to their children. Secondly, I think one way to look at success is as the product of two factors: privilege and work/ability. I'm intelligent and I worked incredibly hard on my startup, but that is only one half of the equation. If I had multiplied those things by a privilege value approaching zero, there is a good chance my success would have also been close to zero. I had a moderately high level of privilege. Many people have significantly more than I do. Many people (including White people) have significantly less. The specific point I was trying to make in the article is that if I had been given less privilege, I do not believe I would have been as successful as I was. And without any privilege, I am fairly certain I would not have been successful at all.

cubecul 10y ago

You're taking an all-or-nothing view. I don't think anyone is saying it's 100% attributable to your background / environment. They are just saying it's not 100% attributable to individual work and effort.

Chris2048 10y ago
Stone soup. I'm not saying the flavor all comes from the stone...

JoeAltmaier 10y ago

Those things were in some degree possible, because our economic system was designed around supporting our parents. There were bank accounts, and mortgages, and job security for our parents. To a greater degree than others' of course; by no means is every white person perfectly protected. But the system is, by the 'white privilege' mindset, rigged to favor one class over another. Then it becomes less of a guilt thing, than a 'recognize a systemic bias' thing. I agree, the very term 'white privilege' is intended to offend. I think it was chosen because its effective in prodding the middle class into thinking about the issues?

zacharytelschow 10y ago
Does it have anything to do with class/systematic bias or is it truly a behavioral issue? Generational choices will affect you, just as your choices will affect your children. Studies show that if you wait to have kids until marriage, don't do drugs, finish high school, and work you will be in the middle class in the US - a pretty privileged place to be on a global basis. And those choices will have a positive impact on your kids as well. There's no denying some people have advantages, but everyone has a chance to get ahead and better their situation and the lives of their children. And I think that's what really bothers me about the "privilege" point of view - it pushes people to justify their situation based on the hand they were dealt, not what they did with it. Based on the stats, the system is rigged to favor one class: Asians. Earnings, credit scores, advanced degrees, longevity - Americans of Asian descent are kicking butt in every category. Those darn founding Asians shouldn't have set up the system to favor their progeny. And the white poor really need to start using their privilege correctly.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Waiting to have kids, avoiding drugs, finishing high school are all easy to do if you start out in a middle-class neighborhood with two-parent families, clean streets and good schools with community support. E.g. easy to say "just stay in school!" from our suburban ivory tower, miles away from the dangerous decaying underfunded overcrowded inner city schools. Its this blindness to the problems and issues of growing up a minority in a poor area, that leads to victim-blaming. Remember, we're talking about kids. They aren't going to make all the good choices if there's nobody home in the poor single-parent household to guide them.
  - Chris2048 10y ago
    Are you talking about race? > They aren't going to make all the good choices if there's nobody home in the poor single-parent household to guide them. Good point. How do you fix this?
    - zacharytelschow 10y ago

saint_fiasco 10y ago

If you are looking at this as a way of measuring virtue-points and deciding how much we should admire the writer, you are correct in that it is nonsense. However if you want to encourage other people to become entrepreneurs, or give advice to some new entrepreneur, it's important to remember that you can't just read on what successful entrepreneurs did and tell them to copy from them. Their techniques might have worked because of dumb luck (survivor bias) or because of some advantage they took for granted (privilege) That's why people caring about privilege isn't always nonsense. They want to know which factors of success can be imitated, and how to compensate for the factors that cannot.

isleyaardvark 10y ago

I don't see where the author says anything like that, quite the opposite. "Did wearing hand-me-down clothes prevent others from doing the same?" Him personally, no. The point of his article is that part of the reason his parents could give him these advantages is because the were white and not affected by racism. Likewise you could ask "how many people were in your exact same position and ended up somewhere else?", but he's asking "how many people weren't in your exact same position, due to the racism of the past, and ended up somewhere else?"

zacharytelschow 10y ago
"The point of his article is that part of the reason his parents could give him these advantages is because the were white and not affected by racism." My mistake. I didn't realize it was being white that allowed his parents to have him after marriage, stay married, and provide him with hand-me-down clothes. If only I had known the melanin levels in your skin had such an affect on behavior!
- icebraining 10y ago
  Where did you read that his parents had him after marriage?
- isleyaardvark 10y ago
  I said part of the reason. It should be uncontroversial that racism can and has impacted parents' ability to provide for their children. And I don't appreciate your snarky tone. It's uncalled for.
Chris2048 10y ago
> reason his parents could give him these advantages is because the were white and not affected by racism The things mentioned are things not affected by racism. There are no racists encouraging blacks not to marry.
- isleyaardvark 10y ago

bbctol 10y ago

The author doesn't mention guilt. For some reason, every time someone says "privilege," there are people who hear "YOU SHOULD FEEL GUILTY!" even when that's not remotely what's being said. Acknowledging privilege doesn't mean feeling bad about it, it means that when trying to understand why something happened (in this case, why a startup was successful) it's important to remember that not everyone started on even footing. You can feel guilty about other people having less than you if you really want to, but the author isn't suggesting that.

jasford 10y ago
Yes! As the author of this article I was completely thrown off when a handful of people responded to with comments about guilt. I don't feel guilty at all for the privilege I have received, and I really tried hard to not come off as guilty-feeling in the tone of the article. It is unfortunate that so many people jump immediately to feelings of guilt when considering privilege. A better response would be thankfulness for blessings received that you did not deserve and that not everyone gets. No matter your position in life, there are people who have been given more than you and less than you. I think the only useful response to understanding this reality is to feel thankful for what you have been given and to work to help others who received less.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

jasford 10y ago

Author here. First off, I didn't use the phrase "white privilege" in the article at all. Privilege is a combination of factors. In my case some of those come from being White. Some come from being male. Some from being an American. Others from parents and grandparents on my side of the family and my wife's working hard so that they could have something to hand down to their children. Secondly, I think one way to look at success is as the product of two factors: privilege and work/ability. I'm intelligent and I worked incredibly hard on my startup, but that is only one half of the equation. If I had multiplied those things by a privilege value approaching zero, there is a good chance my success would have also been close to zero. I had a moderately high level of privilege. Many people have significantly more than I do. Many people (including White people) have significantly less. The specific point I was trying to make in the article is that if I had been given less privilege, I do not believe I would have been as successful as I was. And without any privilege, I am fairly certain I would not have been successful at all.