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So what exactly are the latest-and-greatest libraries that you absolutely need to implement your own business critical features? Please list more than only one

So what exactly are the latest-and-greatest libraries that you absolutely need to implement your own business critical features? Please list more than only one. It's simple to make exceptions for exceptional requirements.

flukus 10y ago
Well for me, all of the libraries I use because none of them exist as packages for any OS. With most of them security fixes will only go into the latest version though, so once you get behind your system is insecure. Applications aren't something you build and forget. An unmaintained project is a dead one.
- jstimpfle 10y ago
  > Well for me, all of the libraries I use because none of them exist as packages for any OS. In conclusion you don't use any libraries that are packaged for any OS. What libraries? Also assuming that some libraries you use don't exist for your OS, that doesn't mean that you absolutely need the latest and greatest in a business critical way. So, not approved. All in all, not too fond of the reasoning and the evidence you provide.
  - flukus 10y ago
    Your logic would prevent any app from just about any non-c ecosystem running. Java, ruby, python, dotnet, rust, go, they all have their own library management and very few of those libraries will be available in an apt repository (let alone a compatible one). Your policy may work in a university, but you'd be fired from any real business.
    - jstimpfle 10y ago
      You are still not providing evidence. You're also making bold claims ("any app from just about any...") that my personal experience can just not validate. It's very easy to write applications without fancy dependencies. Recently I did algorithms, systems and applications in C, C++, python, sdl, alsa, X11, Unix shell scripting, lp_solve, and some web programming in python, javascript, sqlite3. All rock solid and stable - all will probably run on any Linux box from the last 5-10 years (python3 came only in about 2008; forget about the lp_solve bindings and just use the command-line tool). There are 2050 python3-* packages on my system. Not that I think it's a good idea to use most of them. What's "compatible"? So what are the libraries you absolutely need? What is this week's secret sauce?
      - flukus 10y ago
        .net MVC, nUnit 3, jquery, knockoutjs, and nHibernate to name a few. I could name a dozen similar tools on the java stack. Pretty soon I'll be experimenting with rust with libui. >There are 2050 python3-* packages on my system. Not that I think it's a good idea to use most of them. What's "compatible"? 2000 of them are random versions someone made a package for that are unknown to the core team and probably not receiving updates. Your list of projects sounds like typical academic ones, not tools used by businesses that employ most software developers. You're also missing the other benefit of these tools, that we develop against the deployed version. There are no compatibility issues because we develop on ubuntu and host production on redhat.
        jstimpfle 10y ago
        If you consider making websites, and tools and web applications for internal processes, academic... I also did some contract work where I created a server and a client for displaying advertisement media to commodity screens, in a tiled fashion. The tools were all there, C, python, bash, X11, some media libraries, the versions there were all fine (I worked around a bug in mplayer though). jquery, knockout. I don't know a first thing about bundling dependencies for client-side javascript code (not going super fancy there, don't need jquery, knockout - tried writing single page apps by hand but they are hugely complex) but anyway, isn't that independent from server installations? Don't you bundle these libraries in-tree? If so, it doesn't relate to the discussion. .NET... It's MS, do you run on Mono? How does the question of requiring the latest version apply?
        mdekkers 10y ago
        > There are no compatibility issues because we develop on ubuntu and host production on redhat. Sorry, but that is a hilarious argument, almost straight from Gentoo is Rice: https://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/ https://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/
    - mdekkers 10y ago
      > Your policy may work in a university, but you'd be fired from any real business. Nah. If we define "real business" as something with a decent turnover, employing over 250 people, and being in business for over 8 to 10 years; a business that isn't actually in the business of writing software (the majority of what makes up global stockmarkets, or "real business" in most peoples' eyes) then you will find that OP's attitude and policy-making philosophy is right on the money. (Source: Was CTO in exactly the above type businesses for many years)

flukus 10y ago

Well for me, all of the libraries I use because none of them exist as packages for any OS. With most of them security fixes will only go into the latest version though, so once you get behind your system is insecure. Applications aren't something you build and forget. An unmaintained project is a dead one.

jstimpfle 10y ago
> Well for me, all of the libraries I use because none of them exist as packages for any OS. In conclusion you don't use any libraries that are packaged for any OS. What libraries? Also assuming that some libraries you use don't exist for your OS, that doesn't mean that you absolutely need the latest and greatest in a business critical way. So, not approved. All in all, not too fond of the reasoning and the evidence you provide.
- flukus 10y ago
  Your logic would prevent any app from just about any non-c ecosystem running. Java, ruby, python, dotnet, rust, go, they all have their own library management and very few of those libraries will be available in an apt repository (let alone a compatible one). Your policy may work in a university, but you'd be fired from any real business.
  - jstimpfle 10y ago
    You are still not providing evidence. You're also making bold claims ("any app from just about any...") that my personal experience can just not validate. It's very easy to write applications without fancy dependencies. Recently I did algorithms, systems and applications in C, C++, python, sdl, alsa, X11, Unix shell scripting, lp_solve, and some web programming in python, javascript, sqlite3. All rock solid and stable - all will probably run on any Linux box from the last 5-10 years (python3 came only in about 2008; forget about the lp_solve bindings and just use the command-line tool). There are 2050 python3-* packages on my system. Not that I think it's a good idea to use most of them. What's "compatible"? So what are the libraries you absolutely need? What is this week's secret sauce?
    - flukus 10y ago
      .net MVC, nUnit 3, jquery, knockoutjs, and nHibernate to name a few. I could name a dozen similar tools on the java stack. Pretty soon I'll be experimenting with rust with libui. >There are 2050 python3-* packages on my system. Not that I think it's a good idea to use most of them. What's "compatible"? 2000 of them are random versions someone made a package for that are unknown to the core team and probably not receiving updates. Your list of projects sounds like typical academic ones, not tools used by businesses that employ most software developers. You're also missing the other benefit of these tools, that we develop against the deployed version. There are no compatibility issues because we develop on ubuntu and host production on redhat.
      - jstimpfle 10y ago
        If you consider making websites, and tools and web applications for internal processes, academic... I also did some contract work where I created a server and a client for displaying advertisement media to commodity screens, in a tiled fashion. The tools were all there, C, python, bash, X11, some media libraries, the versions there were all fine (I worked around a bug in mplayer though). jquery, knockout. I don't know a first thing about bundling dependencies for client-side javascript code (not going super fancy there, don't need jquery, knockout - tried writing single page apps by hand but they are hugely complex) but anyway, isn't that independent from server installations? Don't you bundle these libraries in-tree? If so, it doesn't relate to the discussion. .NET... It's MS, do you run on Mono? How does the question of requiring the latest version apply?
      - mdekkers 10y ago
        > There are no compatibility issues because we develop on ubuntu and host production on redhat. Sorry, but that is a hilarious argument, almost straight from Gentoo is Rice: https://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/ https://fun.irq.dk/funroll-loops.org/
  - mdekkers 10y ago
    > Your policy may work in a university, but you'd be fired from any real business. Nah. If we define "real business" as something with a decent turnover, employing over 250 people, and being in business for over 8 to 10 years; a business that isn't actually in the business of writing software (the majority of what makes up global stockmarkets, or "real business" in most peoples' eyes) then you will find that OP's attitude and policy-making philosophy is right on the money. (Source: Was CTO in exactly the above type businesses for many years)