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Yeah, ask Lisa Brennan-Jobs about his "kinder side". Ask Steve Wozniak. He spent his whole life throwing people under the bus and using them to get his way. He

Yeah, ask Lisa Brennan-Jobs about his "kinder side". Ask Steve Wozniak. He spent his whole life throwing people under the bus and using them to get his way. He was a manipulative, terrible human being, and it's frankly zero surprise to me how much of the Hacker News community idolizes him.

3adawi 10y ago
because they understand most people are complex and not either assholes or nice/kind people, his close friends/colleagues don't seem to have a problem and remember him every year.
- adrienne 10y ago
  Please see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13361752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13361752
astrodust 10y ago
The only reason her name is "Brennan-Jobs" is because they achieved some degree of reconciliation, so I'm not sure why you'd pick that example. Relationships are complicated, especially between lovers and co-founders. Wozniak has a lot of axes to grind, but he's also not going to piss all over Steve just because of those. If you read the account from the Pixar side of things, his other multi-billion dollar company, he had a whole different attitude towards engaging with that team. Apple was his baby, his entire life, while Pixar was a business venture.
- adrienne 10y ago
  He ignored his real responsibility to her for many years. He stole from Wozniak. Whether they achieved reconciliation or not is irrelevant to my point; we forgive people for the wrongs they've done to us for all sorts of reasons, but that doesn't erase the wrongs done. He had a habit of only caring about people while they were useful to him, and that is, in fact, a huge stain on his character, whether or not people in his life accepted it.
  - astrodust 10y ago
    I think it's generally accepted that he's not all good, and like many, not all bad either. I'm sure there's a littany of other grievances large and small but on the whole he's not predominantly a bad guy. Just as we shouldn't make him out to be some kind of saint who could do no wrong we shouldn't vilify him for the many mistakes he made. The way you're beating on this drum sure sounds a lot like what he did was so monstrous it overshadowed his work. He's no Roman Polaniski, Woody Allen or Bill Cosby where the transgressions are so severe you'd want the person shunned, their work permanently stained by their horrible actions. He was a dick, he was difficult, he was emotionally demanding and verbally abusive, for that he'll always be guilty, but as far as anyone's been willing to divulge he never crossed that line to something violent or irreparably dark.
    - adrienne 10y ago
      The fact that tech believes in visionaries - in people who are unique such that their shitty behavior must be excused, for years, so that their "work" gets done - is the main problem with tech, frankly.
      - astrodust 10y ago
        He was exceptionally difficult to work with. He didn't rape or kill anyone. He didn't sexually abuse people. Seriously, get a grip. The problem with tech is that behaviour way, way worse than what Jobs ever did is given a free pass. The problem is not Jobs.

3adawi 10y ago

because they understand most people are complex and not either assholes or nice/kind people, his close friends/colleagues don't seem to have a problem and remember him every year.

adrienne 10y ago
Please see: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13361752 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13361752

astrodust 10y ago

The only reason her name is "Brennan-Jobs" is because they achieved some degree of reconciliation, so I'm not sure why you'd pick that example. Relationships are complicated, especially between lovers and co-founders. Wozniak has a lot of axes to grind, but he's also not going to piss all over Steve just because of those. If you read the account from the Pixar side of things, his other multi-billion dollar company, he had a whole different attitude towards engaging with that team. Apple was his baby, his entire life, while Pixar was a business venture.

adrienne 10y ago
He ignored his real responsibility to her for many years. He stole from Wozniak. Whether they achieved reconciliation or not is irrelevant to my point; we forgive people for the wrongs they've done to us for all sorts of reasons, but that doesn't erase the wrongs done. He had a habit of only caring about people while they were useful to him, and that is, in fact, a huge stain on his character, whether or not people in his life accepted it.
- astrodust 10y ago
  I think it's generally accepted that he's not all good, and like many, not all bad either. I'm sure there's a littany of other grievances large and small but on the whole he's not predominantly a bad guy. Just as we shouldn't make him out to be some kind of saint who could do no wrong we shouldn't vilify him for the many mistakes he made. The way you're beating on this drum sure sounds a lot like what he did was so monstrous it overshadowed his work. He's no Roman Polaniski, Woody Allen or Bill Cosby where the transgressions are so severe you'd want the person shunned, their work permanently stained by their horrible actions. He was a dick, he was difficult, he was emotionally demanding and verbally abusive, for that he'll always be guilty, but as far as anyone's been willing to divulge he never crossed that line to something violent or irreparably dark.
  - adrienne 10y ago
    The fact that tech believes in visionaries - in people who are unique such that their shitty behavior must be excused, for years, so that their "work" gets done - is the main problem with tech, frankly.
    - astrodust 10y ago
      He was exceptionally difficult to work with. He didn't rape or kill anyone. He didn't sexually abuse people. Seriously, get a grip. The problem with tech is that behaviour way, way worse than what Jobs ever did is given a free pass. The problem is not Jobs.