4 ms·

"Jason Les, Dong Kim, Daniel McAulay and Jimmy Chou ..." are the pros? not exactly ivey.

jat850 10y ago
They're heads-up pros. Ivey and many other well-known names are not heads up specialists like these competitors. They'd likely have an edge over almost any "recognizable" name player.
- lintiness 10y ago
  i'm informed and know next to nothing about two of the names. there are plenty of guys out there the poker world recognizes as better players.
  - jat850 10y ago
    Jason Les and Dong Kim both played in the previous competition, with Doug Polk (arguably the best heads up player in the world). They're reasonably in the discussion, and other factors such as interest and availability possibly factored in.
  - sekasi 10y ago
    you're missing part of the point. The $200k pool of money for an actual 'celebrated' poker player is absolutely not worth the time and effort. Hence why you get a few tiers down in terms of player skill. Still valid tests though, you can't only compare it to the top 1%
    - splonk 10y ago
      It's not a few tiers down in skill, it's a few tiers down in fame. Each of the four players named is likely a favorite over Ivey in this format. Being a specialist counts for a lot here.
      - iopq 10y ago
        Ivey played HU vs. Tom Dwan, Galfond, Blom, etc. and did fine. There's no way they're favorites against Ivey.
        splonk 10y ago
        Galfond thinks otherwise. From the article: “Your favorite poker player almost surely wouldn't agree to play any of these guys for high stakes, and would lose a lot of money if they did,” Galfond added. “Each of the four would beat me decisively.”
        iopq 10y ago
        Interesting, because for the durrrr challenge Galfond was named as the only person Tom Dwan won't play. Maybe I've been out of the loop too long.
        ramblerman 10y ago
        Yeah these would not be considered the world's best HU NL players anymore. Names like Ben Sulsky, Doug Polk, Isaac Haxton would be big favourites over your lineup. Galfond while still playing is playing mostly Omaha
- iopq 10y ago
  Ivey played successfully at the nosebleeds in HU, he'd crush face. He's probably a step below durrrr, galfond and blom, but still really really good.
TylerE 10y ago
Ivey is a whale. He got a lucky a few times and got on TV a lot as a result, but he is FAR FAR from a top professional player.
- kyberias 10y ago
  How do you measure who is "top professional player"? Is this list COMPLETELY inaccurate? Why? Has it ever been? Which list is better? https://www.highstakesdb.com/poker-players.aspx?sortby=winners https://www.highstakesdb.com/poker-players.aspx?sortby=winne...
  - jat850 10y ago
    All-time winnings is not the best measurement as it doesn't take into account things like years played/measured, single individual large wins, etc. It's a decent list for one mode of inspection (winnings) but shouldn't automatically be taken as a ranking of players by skill. Ivey is a very good player, for sure. In the context of HU play (as being discussed in the article), there are better.
  - TylerE 10y ago
    Top level play in poker evolves at a metagame rate as fast as any e-sport. https://www.highstakesdb.com/profiles/Phil-Ivey.aspx https://www.highstakesdb.com/profiles/Phil-Ivey.aspx Ivey's last big win was 2009, and his last win of any kind was in 2011.
    - gigabet 10y ago
      That looks much more like he quit playing online. Saying he 'just got lucky a few times' is very odd. Ivey is considered one of the top pros by virtually everyone. His live tourny stats: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=127&_ga=1.181548647.1377913259.1483894742 http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=127&_ga=1.1... Beyond that, he (like many top pros), prioritizes lucrative cash games over tournament play (or exploiting an edge at baccarat, if the opportunity arises) which we can't track.
runeks 10y ago
Here are two great hands by Jason Les: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RivUSJdrKnU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RivUSJdrKnU

They're heads-up pros. Ivey and many other well-known names are not heads up specialists like these competitors. They'd likely have an edge over almost any "recognizable" name player.

lintiness 10y ago
i'm informed and know next to nothing about two of the names. there are plenty of guys out there the poker world recognizes as better players.
- jat850 10y ago
  Jason Les and Dong Kim both played in the previous competition, with Doug Polk (arguably the best heads up player in the world). They're reasonably in the discussion, and other factors such as interest and availability possibly factored in.
- sekasi 10y ago
  you're missing part of the point. The $200k pool of money for an actual 'celebrated' poker player is absolutely not worth the time and effort. Hence why you get a few tiers down in terms of player skill. Still valid tests though, you can't only compare it to the top 1%
  - splonk 10y ago
    It's not a few tiers down in skill, it's a few tiers down in fame. Each of the four players named is likely a favorite over Ivey in this format. Being a specialist counts for a lot here.
    - iopq 10y ago
      Ivey played HU vs. Tom Dwan, Galfond, Blom, etc. and did fine. There's no way they're favorites against Ivey.
      - splonk 10y ago
        Galfond thinks otherwise. From the article: “Your favorite poker player almost surely wouldn't agree to play any of these guys for high stakes, and would lose a lot of money if they did,” Galfond added. “Each of the four would beat me decisively.”
        iopq 10y ago
        Interesting, because for the durrrr challenge Galfond was named as the only person Tom Dwan won't play. Maybe I've been out of the loop too long.
        ramblerman 10y ago
        Yeah these would not be considered the world's best HU NL players anymore. Names like Ben Sulsky, Doug Polk, Isaac Haxton would be big favourites over your lineup. Galfond while still playing is playing mostly Omaha
iopq 10y ago
Ivey played successfully at the nosebleeds in HU, he'd crush face. He's probably a step below durrrr, galfond and blom, but still really really good.

TylerE 10y ago

Ivey is a whale. He got a lucky a few times and got on TV a lot as a result, but he is FAR FAR from a top professional player.

kyberias 10y ago
How do you measure who is "top professional player"? Is this list COMPLETELY inaccurate? Why? Has it ever been? Which list is better? https://www.highstakesdb.com/poker-players.aspx?sortby=winners https://www.highstakesdb.com/poker-players.aspx?sortby=winne...
- jat850 10y ago
  All-time winnings is not the best measurement as it doesn't take into account things like years played/measured, single individual large wins, etc. It's a decent list for one mode of inspection (winnings) but shouldn't automatically be taken as a ranking of players by skill. Ivey is a very good player, for sure. In the context of HU play (as being discussed in the article), there are better.
- TylerE 10y ago
  Top level play in poker evolves at a metagame rate as fast as any e-sport. https://www.highstakesdb.com/profiles/Phil-Ivey.aspx https://www.highstakesdb.com/profiles/Phil-Ivey.aspx Ivey's last big win was 2009, and his last win of any kind was in 2011.
  - gigabet 10y ago
    That looks much more like he quit playing online. Saying he 'just got lucky a few times' is very odd. Ivey is considered one of the top pros by virtually everyone. His live tourny stats: http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=127&_ga=1.181548647.1377913259.1483894742 http://pokerdb.thehendonmob.com/player.php?a=r&n=127&_ga=1.1... Beyond that, he (like many top pros), prioritizes lucrative cash games over tournament play (or exploiting an edge at baccarat, if the opportunity arises) which we can't track.

runeks 10y ago

Here are two great hands by Jason Les: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RivUSJdrKnU https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RivUSJdrKnU