3 ms·

This is interesting, but what specifically did she discover? The article is confusingly written and never makes it clear what the "smoking gun" actually is.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
It's totally clear, see the paragraph starting "It’s at this point in the story that"
- drjohnson 10y ago
  Yes, I read that paragraph. It's anything but clear: "It’s at this point in the story that Wolfe discovered “the smoking gun”. In the Brooke-Dethick feud, it becomes clear that “Shakespeare, Gent. from Stratford” and “Shakespeare the Player” are the same man." What specifically did Wolfe discover? Certainly not the Brooke-Dethick feud itself: https://books.google.com/books?id=EAuvCFM2S34C&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=brooke+dethick&source=bl&ots=tBl967IISD&sig=lGjCrq3HkMdJgRBgY35sm4QFR8M&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=brooke%20dethick&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=EAuvCFM2S34C&pg=PA183&lpg=.... Perhaps new information about it? Surely the Guardian's readers could handle a detail or two. It's after all customary for an article about a new discovery to say what the discovery is.
stingrae 10y ago
I think the core discovery is when Shakespeare from Stratford gets linked to Shakespeare the player, making her think that these two are the same person. > "When “Shakespeare the Player” found himself on this list, his campaign for social advancement seemed in jeopardy. A bitter row broke out at court between two factions. Shakespeare himself became an object of ridicule. Another rival, Ben Jonson, in his satire Every Man out of his Humour, poked fun at him as a rustic buffoon who pays £30 for a ridiculous coat of arms with the humiliating motto “Not Without Mustard”." "Not Without Mustard" being a reference to Shakespeare of Stratfords request that his family motto be "not without right."
- DashRattlesnake 10y ago
  To be even clearer: it sounds like there was never any clear documentation directly linking "William Shakespeare, the guy from Stratford-upon-Avon" and "William Shakespeare, actor and playwright," and this opened up a window for speculation (by well known people and others) that these were actually different people. Heather Wolfe found the needed documentation in an old court case, proving that Shakespeare is actually Shakespeare: > It’s at this point in the story that Wolfe discovered “the smoking gun”. In the Brooke-Dethick feud, it becomes clear that “Shakespeare, Gent. from Stratford” and “Shakespeare the Player” are the same man. In other words, “the man from Stratford” is indeed the playwright. Crucially, in the long-running “authorship” debate, this has been a fiercely contested point. But Wolfe’s research nails any lingering ambiguity in which the Shakespeare deniers can take refuge.
  - klenwell 10y ago
    > Heather Wolfe found the needed documentation in an old court case, proving that Shakespeare is actually Shakespeare. This is what I sorta inferred from the article. The author says there was a smoking gun but I didn't see where it went off. What did Wolfe's research uncover? A previously overlooked court document hidden in the archives of the Folger Library in Washington DC?
- drjohnson 10y ago
  The article describes all that, but it never says what is new. If you Google "brooke dethick" you'll find that the argument about coats of arms has appeared in lots of previous work about Shakespeare. The other details are even less obscure.
woliveirajr 10y ago
> Wolfe says she looks forward to “poking about” in the archives, and is convinced that Shakespeare’s identity no longer needs re-confirmation. So no need, for her, to verify if Shakespeare was real or a ghost-writer.
Reese1379 10y ago
That's thirteen paragraphs down, by which time most of us would have moved on. This style of writing seems to have spread everywhere. Is it an attempt to portray the interviewee in a less formal and more interesting light. I see something similar on television 'science' documentaries. A picture of a scientist in her bath (a quantum physicist) or another standing on a mountain gazing rapturously into the firmament (a cosmologist). The shot being taken from a swooping drone. No doubt the scientists are having deep thoughts. The thing is, none of this is actually communicated to us in the body of the program. Back to the article, what it doesn't present is the evidence that Shakespeare the Gent. from Stratford is the same as Shakespeare the Player.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago

It's totally clear, see the paragraph starting "It’s at this point in the story that"

drjohnson 10y ago
Yes, I read that paragraph. It's anything but clear: "It’s at this point in the story that Wolfe discovered “the smoking gun”. In the Brooke-Dethick feud, it becomes clear that “Shakespeare, Gent. from Stratford” and “Shakespeare the Player” are the same man." What specifically did Wolfe discover? Certainly not the Brooke-Dethick feud itself: https://books.google.com/books?id=EAuvCFM2S34C&pg=PA183&lpg=PA183&dq=brooke+dethick&source=bl&ots=tBl967IISD&sig=lGjCrq3HkMdJgRBgY35sm4QFR8M&hl=en&sa=X&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=brooke%20dethick&f=false https://books.google.com/books?id=EAuvCFM2S34C&pg=PA183&lpg=.... Perhaps new information about it? Surely the Guardian's readers could handle a detail or two. It's after all customary for an article about a new discovery to say what the discovery is.

stingrae 10y ago

I think the core discovery is when Shakespeare from Stratford gets linked to Shakespeare the player, making her think that these two are the same person. > "When “Shakespeare the Player” found himself on this list, his campaign for social advancement seemed in jeopardy. A bitter row broke out at court between two factions. Shakespeare himself became an object of ridicule. Another rival, Ben Jonson, in his satire Every Man out of his Humour, poked fun at him as a rustic buffoon who pays £30 for a ridiculous coat of arms with the humiliating motto “Not Without Mustard”." "Not Without Mustard" being a reference to Shakespeare of Stratfords request that his family motto be "not without right."

DashRattlesnake 10y ago
To be even clearer: it sounds like there was never any clear documentation directly linking "William Shakespeare, the guy from Stratford-upon-Avon" and "William Shakespeare, actor and playwright," and this opened up a window for speculation (by well known people and others) that these were actually different people. Heather Wolfe found the needed documentation in an old court case, proving that Shakespeare is actually Shakespeare: > It’s at this point in the story that Wolfe discovered “the smoking gun”. In the Brooke-Dethick feud, it becomes clear that “Shakespeare, Gent. from Stratford” and “Shakespeare the Player” are the same man. In other words, “the man from Stratford” is indeed the playwright. Crucially, in the long-running “authorship” debate, this has been a fiercely contested point. But Wolfe’s research nails any lingering ambiguity in which the Shakespeare deniers can take refuge.
- klenwell 10y ago
  > Heather Wolfe found the needed documentation in an old court case, proving that Shakespeare is actually Shakespeare. This is what I sorta inferred from the article. The author says there was a smoking gun but I didn't see where it went off. What did Wolfe's research uncover? A previously overlooked court document hidden in the archives of the Folger Library in Washington DC?
drjohnson 10y ago
The article describes all that, but it never says what is new. If you Google "brooke dethick" you'll find that the argument about coats of arms has appeared in lots of previous work about Shakespeare. The other details are even less obscure.

woliveirajr 10y ago

> Wolfe says she looks forward to “poking about” in the archives, and is convinced that Shakespeare’s identity no longer needs re-confirmation. So no need, for her, to verify if Shakespeare was real or a ghost-writer.

Reese1379 10y ago

That's thirteen paragraphs down, by which time most of us would have moved on. This style of writing seems to have spread everywhere. Is it an attempt to portray the interviewee in a less formal and more interesting light. I see something similar on television 'science' documentaries. A picture of a scientist in her bath (a quantum physicist) or another standing on a mountain gazing rapturously into the firmament (a cosmologist). The shot being taken from a swooping drone. No doubt the scientists are having deep thoughts. The thing is, none of this is actually communicated to us in the body of the program. Back to the article, what it doesn't present is the evidence that Shakespeare the Gent. from Stratford is the same as Shakespeare the Player.