5 ms·

Yeah, but a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.

by jnbiche 10y ago

howlin 10y ago
Pigs have personality too. But most people would never know it given how livestock are treated.
- okreallywtf 10y ago
  As someone who has been around beef-cattle and also had milk cows growing up, cows are much the same way. They have a lot of personality and are not altogether different than dogs or anything else. Cattle raised for beef have a lot less human interaction and therefore have less "personality". Our cows knew their names and were very affectionate but they also had been interacted with since birth.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    Most farm animals are probably psychotic and can't develop a personality just because of the circumstances they are raised in. If you threw 20 humans into a small pen where they have to live from birth to death they would probably be crippled psychologically and not appear very smart too.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  Dogs have co-evolved with humans for tens of thousands of years, and demonstrate traits and behaviors that makes it much easier for humans to empathize and socialize with them. For example, you can tell when a dog is happy because their facial expressions resemble a human smile. Not so with livestock. Sure, you can figure it out after spending time with them, but it's inarguably not the same thing.
  - prodmerc 10y ago
    No, dogs don't smile. Some learn the baring of teeth as being peaceful instead of defensive, but most of them don't, or rather can't smile. You can find the same exact "smile" in goats, sheep and pigs, they're definitely not making that face because they're happy.
    - enraged_camel 10y ago
      Yes, wrong example. Anyway, science has shown us that human-dog coevolution does have a noticeable impact on the way we interact with dogs. Specifically, sustained eye contact between a human and a familiar dog raises oxytocin levels to increase in both. The same type of relationship has not been demonstrated with other domesticated animals, to my knowledge. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-gaze-from-those-big-puppy-eyes-the-look-of-your-doggie-s-love/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-gaze-from-...
    - Johnythree 10y ago
      Yeah, I know all that. But a dog's smile is so much more, posture, sounds, tail wagging.. A dog's smile makes me smile. And for that matter, humans can bare their teeth as well..
nsebban 10y ago
You'd be surprised how interesting a pig can be as a pet. They show amazing social behaviours, and they also seem to be quite good at understanding simple spoken communication.
maxxxxx 10y ago
Having dealt with both I would rate pigs higher in personality than dogs. They are very smart, learn stuff quickly and definitely have individual personalities. I always find it very hypocritical that the same people who have no problem eating pork are outraged over people eating dogs in Asia.
- overcast 10y ago
  I think the key difference here is that dogs were bred for thousands of years, to be our companions, while pigs were bred as food. That's where it comes from.
  - Falling3 10y ago
    In what way is that a meaningful distinction?
    - ohyoutravel 10y ago
      Because when one curates something for a specific purpose, it is sub optimal to use it contrary that purpose. In this case, dogs have specifically been domesticated to be companions for humans for something like 15,000 years. Humans specifically selected for specific behaviors and traits for dogs for them to be more compatible with humans. In the United States, dogs are used almost exclusively as pets and helper animals. Pigs have never been domesticated in that way in large numbers and have always generally been used as food, or for limited other purposes, occasionally as pets. I think this difference in lineage and purpose leads to a very meaningful distinction.
    - strken 10y ago
      I've been thinking about this recently. In a society, people seem to taboo things which indicate a general lack of emotion toward other members of the society. With farm animals, there are social (and religious and legal!) rules around maintenance and slaughter, and farmers deal with large groups of animals, so the relationship between farmer and animal is one-to-many and doesn't leave much room for long term emotional bonds to form. For working animals and pets, the bond is one-to-one, and involves working directly with the animal in question. The relationship with a working animal is much closer to the relationship with another human. Thus, killing a dog in a society where the role of a dog is to herd cattle makes you seem dangerous to the people around you, while killing a cow in a society where cows are food is explicitly sanctioned and not an indication that you might murder your co-workers.
Pxtl 10y ago
For those who are confused, the above line is just quoting the movie Pulp Fiction.
- MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
  Heh, was going to mention this. Funny how nobody expects inline pop culture references in HN discussions, so they're often just taken at face value.
  - jnbiche 10y ago
    > Funny how nobody expects inline pop culture references in HN discussions, so they're often just taken at face value. Or the average age of the site is too young to remember Pulp Fiction.
mccoyspace 10y ago
As a kid in 4H I raised purebred Duroc and showed them at the Evergreen State Fair. You had to train them to respond to cane taps, move right and left, stop start, strike standard poses so the judges could rate breed characteristics, etc. I can assure you that a healthy, well-cared for pig has plenty of personality.
junto 10y ago
So by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal? Is that true?
- xom 10y ago
  Pigs use mud to avoid sunburn. « Some people have gone so far, especially with show pigs, as to slather sun screen onto their pigs when they know that they will be out in the sun for a considerable time and they don't want them to get dirty with mud. » -- http://petcaretips.net/pigs-sunburn.html http://petcaretips.net/pigs-sunburn.html You could also just keep your pet pig indoors all the time.
- m0ngr31 10y ago
  Huge misconception about pigs. Pigs are very clean and if given a choice will never go to the bathroom anywhere close to where they sleep or eat.

Yeah, but a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.

by jnbiche 10y ago

Yeah, but a dog's got personality. Personality goes a long way.

howlin 10y ago

Pigs have personality too. But most people would never know it given how livestock are treated.

okreallywtf 10y ago
As someone who has been around beef-cattle and also had milk cows growing up, cows are much the same way. They have a lot of personality and are not altogether different than dogs or anything else. Cattle raised for beef have a lot less human interaction and therefore have less "personality". Our cows knew their names and were very affectionate but they also had been interacted with since birth.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  Most farm animals are probably psychotic and can't develop a personality just because of the circumstances they are raised in. If you threw 20 humans into a small pen where they have to live from birth to death they would probably be crippled psychologically and not appear very smart too.
enraged_camel 10y ago
Dogs have co-evolved with humans for tens of thousands of years, and demonstrate traits and behaviors that makes it much easier for humans to empathize and socialize with them. For example, you can tell when a dog is happy because their facial expressions resemble a human smile. Not so with livestock. Sure, you can figure it out after spending time with them, but it's inarguably not the same thing.
- prodmerc 10y ago
  No, dogs don't smile. Some learn the baring of teeth as being peaceful instead of defensive, but most of them don't, or rather can't smile. You can find the same exact "smile" in goats, sheep and pigs, they're definitely not making that face because they're happy.
  - enraged_camel 10y ago
    Yes, wrong example. Anyway, science has shown us that human-dog coevolution does have a noticeable impact on the way we interact with dogs. Specifically, sustained eye contact between a human and a familiar dog raises oxytocin levels to increase in both. The same type of relationship has not been demonstrated with other domesticated animals, to my knowledge. https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-gaze-from-those-big-puppy-eyes-the-look-of-your-doggie-s-love/ https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/is-the-gaze-from-...
  - Johnythree 10y ago
    Yeah, I know all that. But a dog's smile is so much more, posture, sounds, tail wagging.. A dog's smile makes me smile. And for that matter, humans can bare their teeth as well..

nsebban 10y ago

You'd be surprised how interesting a pig can be as a pet. They show amazing social behaviours, and they also seem to be quite good at understanding simple spoken communication.

maxxxxx 10y ago

Having dealt with both I would rate pigs higher in personality than dogs. They are very smart, learn stuff quickly and definitely have individual personalities. I always find it very hypocritical that the same people who have no problem eating pork are outraged over people eating dogs in Asia.

overcast 10y ago
I think the key difference here is that dogs were bred for thousands of years, to be our companions, while pigs were bred as food. That's where it comes from.
- Falling3 10y ago
  In what way is that a meaningful distinction?
  - ohyoutravel 10y ago
    Because when one curates something for a specific purpose, it is sub optimal to use it contrary that purpose. In this case, dogs have specifically been domesticated to be companions for humans for something like 15,000 years. Humans specifically selected for specific behaviors and traits for dogs for them to be more compatible with humans. In the United States, dogs are used almost exclusively as pets and helper animals. Pigs have never been domesticated in that way in large numbers and have always generally been used as food, or for limited other purposes, occasionally as pets. I think this difference in lineage and purpose leads to a very meaningful distinction.
  - strken 10y ago
    I've been thinking about this recently. In a society, people seem to taboo things which indicate a general lack of emotion toward other members of the society. With farm animals, there are social (and religious and legal!) rules around maintenance and slaughter, and farmers deal with large groups of animals, so the relationship between farmer and animal is one-to-many and doesn't leave much room for long term emotional bonds to form. For working animals and pets, the bond is one-to-one, and involves working directly with the animal in question. The relationship with a working animal is much closer to the relationship with another human. Thus, killing a dog in a society where the role of a dog is to herd cattle makes you seem dangerous to the people around you, while killing a cow in a society where cows are food is explicitly sanctioned and not an indication that you might murder your co-workers.

Pxtl 10y ago

For those who are confused, the above line is just quoting the movie Pulp Fiction.

MaxfordAndSons 10y ago
Heh, was going to mention this. Funny how nobody expects inline pop culture references in HN discussions, so they're often just taken at face value.
- jnbiche 10y ago
  > Funny how nobody expects inline pop culture references in HN discussions, so they're often just taken at face value. Or the average age of the site is too young to remember Pulp Fiction.

mccoyspace 10y ago

As a kid in 4H I raised purebred Duroc and showed them at the Evergreen State Fair. You had to train them to respond to cane taps, move right and left, stop start, strike standard poses so the judges could rate breed characteristics, etc. I can assure you that a healthy, well-cared for pig has plenty of personality.

junto 10y ago

So by that rationale, if a pig had a better personality, he would cease to be a filthy animal? Is that true?

xom 10y ago
Pigs use mud to avoid sunburn. « Some people have gone so far, especially with show pigs, as to slather sun screen onto their pigs when they know that they will be out in the sun for a considerable time and they don't want them to get dirty with mud. » -- http://petcaretips.net/pigs-sunburn.html http://petcaretips.net/pigs-sunburn.html You could also just keep your pet pig indoors all the time.
m0ngr31 10y ago
Huge misconception about pigs. Pigs are very clean and if given a choice will never go to the bathroom anywhere close to where they sleep or eat.